Escaping UWS? (2 Viewers)

[47.46.45]

Hey all.
Am a first year studying B Law / B Communication at UWS, and whenever you tell someone you're at UWS they have a little laugh and look down at you. I'm personally at UWS because it's the only vaguelly local campus and I can't afford to rent a place near USYD or whatever.
Moving on, is UWS actually that bad? Do you have more trouble getting a job in the field? And is it possible / difficult to transfer from one uni to another mid degree?

 

[UWS-Uni-Student]

Hey all.
Am a first year studying B Law / B Communication at UWS, and whenever you tell someone you're at UWS they have a little laugh and look down at you. I'm personally at UWS because it's the only vaguelly local campus and I can't afford to rent a place near USYD or whatever.
Moving on, is UWS actually that bad? Do you have more trouble getting a job in the field? And is it possible / difficult to transfer from one uni to another mid degree?

It depends on the industry your going into and also which campus you attend, because there is even bias towards specific campuses.

 

[melsc]

I experienced a lot of the same thing at UWS. I decided to transfer because I had the chance (i.e. high enough marks and UAI), was travelling between two campuses and if I chose the exact units I wanted four, was dissapointed at the resources and teaching quality and the apathy of many of the other students, I was sick of a class of law students where no one wanted to talk.

As for employment I cannot say for certain as I have not applied for a jiob yet but I can say (and I know some people from UWS get annoyed at this, but it does happen and its not fair) SOME BIG FIRMS may be biased towards you, as will some mid to small ones, some are even biased towards Macquarie, UTS etc... because they aren't Sydney. Depending where in the law food chain you want to be employed it may be harder. This is a choice you will make but if you work hard there is no reason why you cant be successful, it may not be in the job you wanted but I doubt you will be unemployable.

On the topic of transfers there is no reason why you can't, its not like you are ranked lower because of the uni you went to it is purely GPA and UAI combination. The best time to try and transfer is after 1st year for a few reasons.
1. Some uni will only take people after one year of study somewhere else.
2. There is less fuss with academic credit, majors etc... if they don't correlate.
3. Most uni's don't have mid year law places only beginning of year.
4. Less disruptive to you.

I ended up transfering with a above credit average and UAI of 94, the better marks you get less UAI you need and vice versa. My advice is put an application in in August if you are contemplating and then you have ages to make up your mind

 

[aussiechica7]

i know someone who studied law at uws and now works for the dpp

when u start uni after a little while no one really cares which h.s. u went to.

when u start a job, if u r any good, after a while no one really cares which uni u went to.

 

[ari89]

I have the same problem. Its embarrasing to admitt that you go to UWS. I was calculating the opportunity cost of going to Sydney instead. It would mean 2hours of extra travel per day which is basically wasted time and would cost something like 10k more per year (i dont know the exact amount).

So the additional cost of attending Sydney is:

28(uni weeks in year) * 3(days per week) * 2 hours per day * $20 (average wage forgone plus addition transport costs) = $3360

Plus the extra tution fees. So the total cost of getting a degree at Usyd as opposed to UWS could be over 50k. Is this worth it to say "I went to/go to Sydney?

Why would the actual course cost more? I thought that HECS contributions for each band were standard?
Oh wait, are you talking about usyd feepaying?

 

[47.46.45]

I have the same problem. Its embarrasing to admitt that you go to UWS. I was calculating the opportunity cost of going to Sydney instead. It would mean 2hours of extra travel per day which is basically wasted time and would cost something like 10k more per year (i dont know the exact amount).

So the additional cost of attending Sydney is:

28(uni weeks in year) * 3(days per week) * 2 hours per day * $20 (average wage forgone plus addition transport costs) = $3360

Plus the extra tution fees. So the total cost of getting a degree at Usyd as opposed to UWS could be over 50k. Is this worth it to say "I went to/go to Sydney?

Good way to express it. Not worth the extra debt alone, and then there's all the travel time... and like someone ^^^ pointed out, if you're good at what you do then the uni you went to is basically irrelevant.

 

[ari89]

Good way to express it. Not worth the extra debt alone, and then there's all the travel time... and like someone ^^^ pointed out, if you're good at what you do then the uni you went to is basically irrelevant.

Okay, what if I went to some little chinese private university and within three months graduated with a Bachelor of Laws and Masters of law and came to Australia. In china I was good at talking shit but when i came to australia the legal practitioners board was like 'wtf get out' as i tried to represent clients. Then they said it was because of my university. Gee thanks for the false hope...looks like the university you went to isn't irrelevant

 

[ari89]

Your hypothetical example of a chinese unversity that gives out law degrees within three months proves the importance of attending a good university. Well done Ari.

Tell me you're proud.

 

[ari89]

Well if they have this attitude, it must be because UWS students don't get to practice their legal skills enough.

There's a simple solution. Walk up to the guy who lowered his head and laughed at you.

Place your right hand on his right shoulder, your left hand on his left shoulder.. Then ram your knee into his groin as hard as you can!

Then look at him and say "CRIMINAL? or CIVIL? Which set of skills shall I be testing? Or BOTH perhaps? :uhhuh: Thanks for your concern for my legal skills and this opportunity to be testing them "

Then he will appreciate your dedication to testing your legal knowledge.

Problem solved.

hahaaha I only just read that...I can't wait to try it one day

 

[Rorix]

Going to a good university gets you a look in if you are on the cutoff; if a student has the exact same CV as another, but one went to USYD/UNSW and one went to UWS and theres 1 spot, the UWS guy is not going to get it.

 

[ari89]

Going to a good university gets you a look in if you are on the cutoff; if a student has the exact same CV as another, but one went to USYD/UNSW and one went to UWS and theres 1 spot, the UWS guy is not going to get it.

And when I was president of the world I knew what presidents of the wolrd based their decisions on. However, before i was president of the world i had no idea.

 

[Newbie]

Yeah the old "exact CV" scenario. What rubbish. Interview performance and individual personality would play a bigger part. Even if your argument is correct, after a few years of practicing your degree will become irrelevant anyway. How could any employer not be far more interested in your proffessional performance?

Maybe if every other factor was equal the Usyd candidate would be preffered for their first job. But is this slight advantage worth an estimated opportunity cost of around 50k. Personally I think not.

i did the maths in another thread
the perceived economic benefit is illusory/short term when choosing between UWS over UNSW/USYD

the same CV scenario is not rubbish. in fact its very optimistic. what makes you think you would have better inteview performance/personality than an UNSW/USYD student? employers wouldnt be interested in professional experience because most likely it would be your first full time job. the relevance of your undergrad degree is still important until you go to busines school/post grad studies.

Life beckons. Choose Wisely

 

[47.46.45]

If UWS is so gay, shouldn't they employ the UWS person? If they got the same marks, and the USYD person was getting better tutelage, the UWS person is obviously smarter.

 

[Anonymou5]

Standardised marks, less competition = you're a failure if you don't get excellent marks in a low competition environment.

 

[ari89]

Standardised marks, less competition = you're a failure if you don't get excellent marks in a low competition environment.

Its not actually a low competition environment.
In fact, if it was no one would get excellent marks as no competition wouldn't push anyone to actually try and do well. I know someone who did some cross institution stuff who just passed a UWS unit and got a distinction in something of the came calibre at either Macquarie or UTS (not sure which one of the 2 it was). Similarly, I do an economics subject that someone at UTS does and she finds it much easier to get excellent marks because all the assessments are prereleased. [and next semester we will be able to compare law subjects.] To say UWS is low competitive because a few drop kicks got in doesn't change anything.
And the argument that 'usyd had a higher uai cut off than uws making the cohort smarter' doesn't hold much substance. In law I got a uai upto 10 points higher than a lot of them and some of those people have been able to beat me university wise. Simialarly, in business subjects my uai was like 20points above the cut off and therefore probably the average student and I'm sure a few of them have beaten me in some of the assessments. So your ability to succeed in university isn't directly related to how well you went in highschool.

 

[Anonymou5]

I know someone who did some cross institution stuff who just passed a UWS unit and got a distinction in something of the came calibre at either Macquarie or UTS (not sure which one of the 2 it was)

I'm sure that you also know someone who failed high school science and went on to receive the nobel prize for physics.

These specific examples mean nothing. Why don't you compare assessments, across different unis, for subjects which aren't subjectively marked. You'll see a clear difference between the difficulty of the assesments for uws and the equivalent ones for a lot of other unis. Besides, all of your arguments are negated by the fact that marks are standardised. So really, contrary to your suggestion, you don't need any competition to do well marks wise.

 

[ari89]

I'm sure that you also know someone who failed high school science and went on to receive the nobel prize for physics.

Nah, but I'm sure theres countless examples
C'mon...you failed at life and you still got into uni, there's hope for everyone.

These specific examples mean nothing. Why don't you compare assessments, across different unis, for subjects which aren't subjectively marked. You'll see a clear difference between the difficulty of the assesments for uws and the equivalent ones for a lot of other unis. Besides, all of your arguments are negated by the fact that marks are standardised. So really, contrary to your suggestion, you don't need any competition to do well marks wise.

I will or did you miss that in my post? E.g. With the economics subject, and next term with the law subjects. Please correctly refer to my post other than listing irrelevant generalisations that were never in fact suggested. Now, what exactly was contrary to my suggestion that backed up your conclusion that you don't need any competition to do well marks wise? UAI was standardised and as I said it doesn't directly relate to university marks. Maybe you should back up your argument with facts as opposed to subjectively listing your opinion and attacking something that has a shred of truth to it.

 

[47.46.45]

Think the thread has got a little offtopic...
Thanks to all for the input

 

[Rorix]

It never ceases to amaze me that people can't admit that ceteris paribus, you should attend the university with the better reputation.

 

[ari89]

It never ceases to amaze me that people can't admit that ceteris paribus, you should attend the university with the better reputation.

Yeah, if only it was possible to have homogenous law graduates then we could test the extent of university prestige in getting a job.

Sorry, where does the opportunity cost come from? =/

Yeah, I don't know where you got that from either?