Old Kingdom viziers - evidence (1 Viewer)

[rink]

Hey ppl, Im trying to do last years hsc question for old kingdom dynasty 3-6 society (short answer) and when i tried answering part c I realised that I didn't really have any evidence to back up my response. The question is

''Outline the roles of a vizier in Old Kingdom society''

It's fairly easy but i just cant find any evidence. I tried looking for evidence on google (eg: vizier tombs with inscriptions about their roles etc) but the sites mainly just concentrated on the width/height/various chambers/about the vizier etc etc of their mastaba tombs rather than their roles. So im just wondering, if anyone knows of any evidence i can use in my response plz lemme know. Thanks in advance. (and yes i know i dont really need to put in evidence coz its only part c but i would still like to include some)

 

[angelduck]

Okay, i didnt do this, but i think the best way to go about getting someone to answer you in this forum (the only 2 ppl i know of who could help - asy & phwaryuex - aren't big on helping those who havnt given any evidence of doing/trying the questions b4 hand) is to post up what points you need, what you think u might say, what you need help with, and what kind of P/S documentation your after

 

[rink]

Well basically it's only a 5mark ''outline the roles'' question. So I didn't really bother structuring it and stuff, I just kind of stated their roles. Like for example, part of it is:

''The vizier had many roles during OKE. He was often referred to as ''He of the curtain'' because he held the role of deciding who could and could not see the kings. The vizier also had a role of assisting the pharaoh in maintaining ma'at by acting as a chief judge of justice and hearing petitions from people who were dissatisfied with the decisions of the pharaohs court. other major roles of the vizier included supervision of the census, collector of national taxes, acting as a monitor of the Nile's traffic, overseer of two granaries'' ect ect etc

Basically, I dont need help with content. I just need help with finding sources to back up what Ive said (eg: ''this is evidenced by a painting in mereruka's tomb which depicts the viziers role as overseer of the granaries ''(i made htat up btw) or like with the ''He of The Curtain'' thing, actually quoting it from a historian rather than just stating this was his title and stuff like that

 

[xeuyrawp]

With society questions, you can get away with 'saying something, then proving it', rather that 'showing evidence and saying something from it'.

I'll look for some evidence for you, off the top of my head, I've got nothing, I'm affraid.

Have you looked in a textbook? You probably have, but they all suck. I'm planning on writing my own that follows the syllabus points and works through them to a better extent than the Macquarie one.

 

[rink]

With society questions, you can get away with 'saying something, then proving it', rather that 'showing evidence and saying something from it'.

I'll look for some evidence for you, off the top of my head, I've got nothing, I'm affraid.

Have you looked in a textbook? You probably have, but they all suck. I'm planning on writing my own that follows the syllabus points and works through them to a better extent than the Macquarie one.

Yep I know, that's what I'm trying to do. Sorry probly didn't make myself clear enough. Ive said heaps of stuff, now it's just a matter of proving it. That's the problem though I can't find any evidence to prove it with.

Yeah I looked at the textbook (i've got the societies from the past one) and it doesn't really have anything there. Just some letter from a vizier to the nobles but nothing thats actually about the role of viziers.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Yeah I looked at the textbook (i've got the societies from the past one) and it doesn't really have anything there. Just some letter from a vizier to the nobles but nothing thats actually about the role of viziers.

Did I mention that I hate the current textbooks?

I'm sure you could find discussion on the vizier in a text, but they wouldn't back it up. Textbook writers love to pretend they're above using evidence.

That being said, watch out for Perssön's textbook coming 2012 (no hiccups bidding!); Egypt: The Definitive HSC Guide. It's going to cover all three personalities, the three societies, and the four historical periods.

I was thinking of a flashy name like Gae's The Eye of Horus but I figured that it's the flashyness and huge chunks of prose that make her books unpopular.

 

[hipPo3]

Well basically it's only a 5mark ''outline the roles'' question. So I didn't really bother structuring it and stuff, I just kind of stated their roles. Like for example, part of it is:

''The vizier had many roles during OKE. He was often referred to as ''He of the curtain'' because he held the role of deciding who could and could not see the kings. The vizier also had a role of assisting the pharaoh in maintaining ma'at by acting as a chief judge of justice and hearing petitions from people who were dissatisfied with the decisions of the pharaohs court. other major roles of the vizier included supervision of the census, collector of national taxes, acting as a monitor of the Nile's traffic, overseer of two granaries'' ect ect etc

Basically, I dont need help with content. I just need help with finding sources to back up what Ive said (eg: ''this is evidenced by a painting in mereruka's tomb which depicts the viziers role as overseer of the granaries ''(i made htat up btw) or like with the ''He of The Curtain'' thing, actually quoting it from a historian rather than just stating this was his title and stuff like that

what the hell ?!?!?
u already have a perfectly good source there!!
u dont need anything else .... u know a perfectly good source (even if u did make it up)

 

[xeuyrawp]

u know a perfectly good source (even if u did make it up)

Warning: Gae has issued an official statement that she's really unhappy with the lax marking to do with catching bogus sources. This year, she's brought in a lot of grad and undergrads who have done Egypt at uni (at WA or Macq).

It's really unlikely that, like my year which got away with referring to bullshit, you're going to get away with it.

I think the tougher marking has come as a reaction to the stigma associated with Ancient's bad scaling.

Essentially, by next year (possibly this year), people who make up shit are going to get pwned.

 

[hipPo3]

watch me get pwned

 

[xeuyrawp]

watch me get pwned

At the very least, know generally your primary sources and what your historians have talked about.

Don't make up a historian, and don't make a up a quotation that a historian would have never said because it's not his field.

 

[hipPo3]

yea i know .. i have teh good sources
but im afraid i might screw some up .. like in my trials, a Q on O.K.A.E society it asked how the Nile helps Egypt and yaddy yadda, i forgot the difference between Horace and Herodotus for my source .. so i screwed up and wrote the wrong one .. hehe

i try and learn from my mistakes

 

[xeuyrawp]

yea i know .. i have teh good sources
but im afraid i might screw some up .. like in my trials, a Q on O.K.A.E society it asked how the Nile helps Egypt and yaddy yadda, i forgot the difference between Horace and Herodotus for my source .. so i screwed up and wrote the wrong one .. hehe

i try and learn from my mistakes

I assume you put Horace instead of Herodotus...?

I think the best way of learning things by rote (like quotations or Shakespeare) is by saying it allowed in heaps of different ways. I put on a Memphis accent, real strong like ;P, to remember all my HSC Hamlet lines

 

[hipPo3]

lol 10 pts for u

thats a very good idea .. what ive done recently is just try and remeber the backgrounds of the sources, so i know where to put them in which questions
Like Horace was ghey and Herodotus wrote about everything
see .. now i know that i can use Horace in the ghey Cloepatra V11 questions and herodotus in all all other questions.

 

[xeuyrawp]

lol 10 pts for u

thats a very good idea .. what ive done recently is just try and remeber the backgrounds of the sources, so i know where to put them in which questions
Like Horace was ghey and Herodotus wrote about everything
see .. now i know that i can use Horace in the ghey Cloepatra V11 questions and herodotus in all all other questions.

I was going to say 'Horace is not Horus' to help you remember that you're not using him for Egypt, but you're using Horace for Cleo, so it's probably not a good idea