Studying in NSW / Bond university? (2 Viewers)

[slively03]

hi, my name is Shane and I am doing TEE in Western Australia this year. It is the equivalent of your HSC. I know that boredofstudies is only aimed at NSW/Victorian students but since i'm thinking of applying there i think that this question is relevant. I am considering apply to go to law school at probably monash, U of Melbourne (possibly) and Bond University. I have a few questions.

1. What do you know about Bond university's reputation? From my research it indicates it has a good reputation internationally and works on a trimester system unlike a public university. Meaning i can complete a law degree in 2 years 8 months, 32 subjects @ 8 semesters. Is doing a degree in this short amount of time, ... 'dodgy'. What is Bond's application process, eg. is it hard?

2. In order to do my preferences later in the year i am already signed up to get the form sent to me to fill them in and make them either online or by my school. This is in western australia. How do i get application forms to put preferences in at Bond, Monash and others?

3. Is it hard moving interstate to a new uni, eg. finding a job, accommodation etc. i have little money on myself atm.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[slively03]

Re: Studying Law in NSW LAW

come on, 13 views and no replies?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

1. Whatever the quality of the Bond law course (perhaps very good) Bond University is not a particularly reputable university within NSW. This will obviously be a factor should you wish to practice law in NSW.

I do not know about internationally, although one might assume it would not fair too well if the other prestigious universities are regarded as higher within NSW alone.

2. Sorry, I am unsure of what you mean. Perhaps you could rephrase your question. If it is a question regarding the practices of a particular university, you should contact that institution directly rather than relying on hearsay advice from us.

3. I have no experience in this matter but I suggest posting this question in the main tertiary discussion area, since it does not pertain to law exclusively.

Best of luck in your studies.

 

[slively03]

i think this person would disagree with you

http://www.james.observationdeck.org/?p=142

read the comments. It suprised me too.

 

[slively03]

Bond has been consistently ranked as an outstanding university both domestically and worldwide, and although it may be younger than most Australian universities, the success of its Law Faculty program is testified by the success of its students. When one compares the percentage of article and associateship positions offered to Bond graduates, with the percentage of those same positions being offered to Universities with much larger law student populations, Bond’s ratio of articled/associateship students is far higher than the rest.

Also Bond has a sister school Duke University in the United States. ranked by US news as the 5th best university in the country. After University of Pennsylania, Yale Princeton and Harvard. I do not know of any other school with strong international ties like this.

 

[slively03]

Carmen Says:

May 15th, 2006 at 11:54 pm
I think it would be difficult to provide an overall rank of law schools. The Good Universities Guide attempts to do this on a number of different levels, its findings in relation to law schools are interesting.

As a former Gold Coast resident that went to Griffith I’m not shocked by Bond’s high rating in terms of prestige, as a few of my colleagues switched degrees a couple of years ago once FEE HELP became available for this sole reason.

This act alone has virtually secured them articles - there must be something in water with Bond’s HR People. Good on them, both students who transferred had their grades go up an average of two bands and whats more employers are so impressed with the prestige of attending Bond they never asked to see the Griffith transcripts so now they have this Bond law degree with a near perfect GPA and no problem getting offers for articles. Pretty clever.

 

[Frigid]

dude, you asked us for our opinion of Bond. we gave it to you. then you choose to refute us with various sources. what's your point?

go to Bond, if you like.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

i think this person would disagree with you

http://www.james.observationdeck.org/?p=142

read the comments. It suprised me too.

That person also says that the ranking of law schools is as follows:

1. University of Melbourne

2. University of New South Wales

3. University of Sydney

4. University of Queensland

5. Australian National University

6. Monash University

7. Deakin University

8. University of Adelaide

9. Bond University

10. University of Tasmania / La Trobe University

I hate doing this because it can affront a lot of people (some of whom are passionate law students who deserve to be doing law at any institution they choose, but for whatever reason were unable to gain entry). But from what I would see as a NSW employer's perspective, all else being equal (which it never is), this is the ranking of the top law schools in Australia:

1. University of Sydney
2. UNSW
3. ANU / UTS / MQ (order debatable)
4. UQ / Melb
5. Others - eg. UWS, UOW, Monash, Deakin, UWA, UOA, UNISA, etc. (order debatable)

However good Bond might be, in terms of prestige, Bond would certainly not be in the top 5. You may disregard my comments if you are after nicities or reassurances. But you asked for my opinion -- and so I have been truthful with you. There are of course many more factors than where one attended university to consider, and university alone will not get one anywhere. But if we are talking exclusively universities, this is my true opinion and one which I strongly believe rings true for big NSW law firms.

I usually do not get into these discussions. It is not pleasant. Let me make it clear that I am not debating, nor will I debate, the quality of the Bond law degree. How can I do that properly without having attended there? It may very well be a fantastic course. I am simply expressing to you what I perceive to be the reputation of law schools. While only one factor, it is important if you intend on practicing at a law firm in NSW. I am not sure what firms in WA think of various schools - perhaps Bond ranks highly there.

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

>> 10. University of Tasmania

who ever wrote that list is kidding themselves.

I read a criminal law thesis from U. Tas and it was equal to something that a 2nd year student would create. I take that to represent the university. (Also, wouldn't U. newcastle and U. Wollongong be in there? :S)

 

[melsc]

I only knew Bond exists coz they give a partial scholarship to the best member of the team who wins the mock trial final in NSW and had to go an research it to find out where it was etc...

I agree with MS and Frigid, if you have found sources which support Bond and you trust them then that is your decision, however you asked for opinions and were given them, now its up to you to weigh up what they are worth and make your decision. Good luck and lets just hope that is remains a friendly thread

 

[slively03]

Are employers really concerned what university you go to? I mean an LLB is an LLB whatever way you look at it. Everyone does the same units, although some unis specialise in specific majors different to others. But everyone does contracts, evidence, constitutional law, civil procedure etc.

What i consider the bond advantage is the trimester system. Even if law firms are picky - i will have a degree in 2 years 8 months. I can do a masters in the length of time it takes a government uni to do a bachelor's degree. Even if, say a GO8 uni was favoured, wouldn't they favour the 4 or 5 years experience i'd have since i'd be working while you're still in third year?

Isn't this an even BETTER way to get my foot in the door?

Oh and btw UWA was not mentioned which i consider a gross injustice. I see that NSW and Victoria seem to think they are australia, like they don't realise that over 1/3 of australia's GDP is coming from WA.

..sigh.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Are employers really concerned what university you go to? I mean an LLB is an LLB whatever way you look at it. Everyone does the same units, although some unis specialise in specific majors different to others. But everyone does contracts, evidence, constitutional law, civil procedure etc.

Depends where you want to work and what you want to do. Working in a small firm won't require the best degree in the world. Local practices are not a worry. But top-tier firms are more picky. In the end, it is only one factor though, and your grades and other skills and experiences are extremely important. The way I have put it in the past is, a more prestigious university degree means that when you go for a job, you go into the fight with a superior weapon. It doesn't mean you win the fight, it means you have an advantage over others.

What i consider the bond advantage is the trimester system. Even if law firms are picky - i will have a degree in 2 years 8 months. I can do a masters in the length of time it takes a government uni to do a bachelor's degree. Even if, say a GO8 uni was favoured, wouldn't they favour the 4 or 5 years experience i'd have since i'd be working while you're still in third year?

Isn't this an even BETTER way to get my foot in the door?

Oh and btw UWA was not mentioned which i consider a gross injustice. I see that NSW and Victoria seem to think they are australia, like they don't realise that over 1/3 of australia's GDP is coming from WA.

..sigh.

That may be true, and once again I cannot comment on the quality of WA degrees, but I would think that from a large law firm in NSW's perspective, such a degree would be of lesser repute (dare I say, off-the-map) than a big NSW university degree. If you have a USyd student with the same marks as a WA student, and they are fairly equal in other areas, the USyd student will win every time. I state this with no approval or disdain, simply matter-of-factly.

Some employers are just snobs, but I would think that many legitimately believe in the strengths of certain more reputable universities over others. But again the university you graduate from is not the be-all and end-all.

 

[hfis]

If you ask for advice on a topic, don't try to rebut that which is given. It seems to defeat the purpose of the exercise.

In all seriousness, where the hell is Bond university? This is the first I've heard of it, and indeed, that they offer law. I am being completely serious here.

I read a criminal law thesis from U. Tas and it was equal to something that a 2nd year student would create. I take that to represent the university. (Also, wouldn't U. newcastle and U. Wollongong be in there? :S)

Completely unrelated to what you were saying, where is your avatar from?

 

[slively03]

taking onboard what you said, (which i don't personally agree with), wouldn't it just be a better idea to go to bond, for the better educational experience and international reputation - then go to a 'prestige' university for possibly postgraduate work - then you'd have the best of both worlds?

oh and i found this interesting when i looked up the word 'prestige' for fun in the dictionary

Prestige - Prestige means good reputation or high esteem, although it originally meant a delusion or magician's trick (Latin præstigum).

 

[slively03]

Oh and as testament to UWA's academic ability - UWA won the International Jessup Moot Competition and was the world champion in 2003, According to what i read Bond came third last year at the same competition.

 

[Frigid]

dude, seriously man - whatever. go where you like.

it doesn't concern us.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

taking onboard what you said, (which i don't personally agree with),

Well with respect, we are all law students studying at a variety of law schools in NSW. You're a high schooler in WA, yes?

wouldn't it just be a better idea to go to bond, for the better educational experience and international reputation - then go to a 'prestige' university for possibly postgraduate work - then you'd have the best of both worlds?

Who says Bond has a better educational experience (ie. than other NSW institutions)? That is highly unlikely, if not highly contentious and certainly not justifiable without having some experience with other institutions.

Additionally, although I do not know of Bond's international reputation, I would think that if it is not highly regarded within Australia then one might question its position at an international level. The link with the US is certainly of assistance in that regard I suppose.

Oh and as testament to UWA's academic ability - UWA won the International Jessup Moot Competition and was the world champion in 2003, According to what i read Bond came third last year at the same competition.

I was not aware the UWA team won that competition, that is a commendable result to be sure. But UTS has had the best mooting teams in the past year or two, winning the most competitions, and it does not mean that their university is the most highly regarded. Additionally, mooting teams consist of four people maximum (really only two, since there are only two speakers). It is not necessarily reflective of the remainder of the student body. Moreover it is highly probable that two or three bright sparks (conceivably anomalies) are exclusively praise-worthy, rather than the institution itself.

I'm not saying Bond is a bad university. I have little idea on that subject. But once again I believe it would not be in the top end of the reputable NSW law schools. It would help if you gave some indication of where you wanted to practice (geography) and in what type of business (big firms, barrister, in-house consultant, small firms, local conveyancer, etc).

 

[wheredanton]

Why did they emit the 'Alan' in Bond University?

Alan Bond university would have been very grand.

 

[slively03]

Okay I can see this is leading nowhere. So here is what i've Garnered from this thread (which isn't much of value but there you go):

1. I am unable to contact anyone from Bond university. Everyone who gave an opinion about Bond University made no references to academic performance of students or quality of the Law Degree. When i suggested it had a good reputation everyone said, "well, if Bond is good then GO8 MUST have a better reputation". Well this isn't true. In fact, Bond's student population is 50/50. 50% international 50% Australian. Since this is half of their target market, full fee paying students are more aware of Bond University merely because it is better known there. For that reason it has more reputation than any other Australian University.

2. I have been told prospective employers will look down on me because i'm not from a 'prestigious' university (whatever that really means). If possible, could i be provided with any information from prospective law firms or representatives of the legal community? I want some non-anecdotal evidence to investigate this. But my law student friend at Murdoch here in Perth said it makes little difference, if you work hard and get plenty of Ds and HDs I will get a job in a top law firm. According to this subforum, that advice seems questionable now.

3. I am seriously considering spending $90 000+ on a law degree from Bond University. I am not going to make such a financial commitment lightly. My main ratio decidendi is that i can do a degree in half the time, full fee meaning i'll pay the debt off faster and get double the experience. I also hold Bond in high regard, even though it is unknown, and because it is unknown and a full fee paying private university i can understand that people in sandstone universities may feel threatened. Full fee universities tend to have a lot of prejudices against them, though.

4. If I can be directed where i can find more information on bond, possible advantages/disadvantages etc. It would be greatly appreciated. The whole point of the subforum was to learn more.

5. Since this will probably be one of my last posts I thank you all for your imput, since I am a highschool student in WA, and NSW and Victorian law universities are the centre of the universe, yes?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

1. I am unable to contact anyone from Bond university. Everyone who gave an opinion about Bond University made no references to academic performance of students or quality of the Law Degree. When i suggested it had a good reputation everyone said, "well, if Bond is good then GO8 MUST have a better reputation". Well this isn't true. In fact, Bond's student population is 50/50. 50% international 50% Australian. Since this is half of their target market, full fee paying students are more aware of Bond University merely because it is better known there. For that reason it has more reputation than any other Australian University.

That was not what was said.

2. I have been told prospective employers will look down on me because i'm not from a 'prestigious' university (whatever that really means). If possible, could i be provided with any information from prospective law firms or representatives of the legal community? I want some non-anecdotal evidence to investigate this. But my law student friend at Murdoch here in Perth said it makes little difference, if you work hard and get plenty of Ds and HDs I will get a job in a top law firm. According to this subforum, that advice seems questionable now.

That was not what was said.

In fact, many of the comments support your friend's suggestion, in that marks are a very important factor which balance the reputation of the university one attends.

3. I am seriously considering spending $90 000+ on a law degree from Bond University. I am not going to make such a financial commitment lightly. My main ratio decidendi is that i can do a degree in half the time, full fee meaning i'll pay the debt off faster and get double the experience. I also hold Bond in high regard, even though it is unknown, and because it is unknown and a full fee paying private university i can understand that people in sandstone universities may feel threatened. Full fee universities tend to have a lot of prejudices against them, though.

I really don't think sandstone universities feel the slightest bit threatened.

4. If I can be directed where i can find more information on bond, possible advantages/disadvantages etc. It would be greatly appreciated. The whole point of the subforum was to learn more.

The Bond University website would be a good start. They have e-mail and phone contact details therein.

5. Since this will probably be one of my last posts I thank you all for your imput, since I am a highschool student in WA, and NSW and Victorian law universities are the centre of the universe, yes?

Not the universe. But they are certainly the centre of NSW. Like it or not a USyd law degree is far more reputable than a law degree from WA. If you were looking for an answer that sounded more pleasing, I could always lie and tell you, don't worry -- it doesn't make a difference where you study and all university degrees are considered entirely equal. But like the rest of the contributors here, I assumed you wanted honest opinions.

Best of luck.