Corporal punishment? (2 Viewers)

Do you support corporal punishment?

  • Yes - like the 'good old days'

    Votes: 6 20.0%
  • Yes - in families and within limits

    Votes: 16 53.3%
  • No - never

    Votes: 8 26.7%

  • Total voters
    30

rokkuguhyo

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"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets, inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying."

That's a nice little generalisation right there. It's not only young people who do all this- I've seen and heard of drunken adult bogans doing all of the above.

I think that hurting kids for being disobedient can teach them that violence is acceptable, and that it's okay to harm people to get what they want. And how are they supposed to be able to trust and rely on their parents and/or teachers if they know that making a simple mistake will result them getting hurt and humiliated?
 

loquasagacious

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That's a nice little generalisation right there. It's not only young people who do all this- I've seen and heard of drunken adult bogans doing all of the above.
Pretty much the point.... it's a quote from Plato circa 2400 years ago...
 

S.H.O.D.A.N.

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Sorry mate but much of this is a LOAD OF CRAP.
You try explaining to a two year old that pulling things off shelves in a supermarket is naughty. Love to see you try.:santa:
Yep. Children demonstrably do not understand the concept of 'naughty', 'bad', or 'wrong' at that age, and interpret punishment for bad behaviour as resentment and/or dislike of their overall being. That is: they're not capable of associating the punishment with the 'crime' - making such punishment not only pointless but detrimental to the child's mental health.

This lasts until about the age of 6 or 7. Even past that age, the psychological benefits of corporal punishment to the child are highly suspect.
 

S.H.O.D.A.N.

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I didn't read that article Locky, too long, etc, etc.

If you have to resort to whacking your kid to get a point through, you're doing it wrong and you've been doing it wrong for a while. Yeah sure, smack a kid on the bum if he runs out onto the road, or if he/she tries to touch something hot, idk ... But once you get to the age where they're at school, if you have to hit them to get your point across, you're failing as a parent.

With that, I especially despise most teachers and wouldn't trust this generation of teachers with the right to hit my kid.
Agreed.
 

katie tully

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Nah 2 year olds know when they're doing something wrong, in terms of 'don't pull things off the shelf', 'don't pull the dogs tail' etc. It's the higher levels of intellect they don't understand, like 'don't play with hot water because it burns'.

They're pretty good at pushing boundaries, and when they know they're about to get in trouble they're pretty good at running and hiding.
 

*TRUE*

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Nah 2 year olds know when they're doing something wrong, in terms of 'don't pull things off the shelf', 'don't pull the dogs tail' etc. It's the higher levels of intellect they don't understand, like 'don't play with hot water because it burns'.

They're pretty good at pushing boundaries, and when they know they're about to get in trouble they're pretty good at running and hiding.
True story :)
 

loquasagacious

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I believed you missed out "un-American" in that list of adjectives. In all seriousness though, I have to agree with you, it is a necessary thing to raise a "productive member of society" for lack of a better term.
Does corporal punishment create productive members of society though?
 

hermand

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Sorry mate but much of this is a LOAD OF CRAP.
You try explaining to a two year old that pulling things off shelves in a supermarket is naughty. Love to see you try.:santa: This sort of an approach is much more likely to result in a parent losing their temper with their child. Children are not the intellectual equals of their parents, nor have they learnt acceptable social behaviour - they are not going to give a crap about the effect of their behaviour on others - I literally laugh when I see a parent trying to reason with a toddler.
Toddlers are gorgeous, devious, selfish little things that need to know their limitations. A little smack will not psychologically harm them.
this.

i have two little sisters [five and four] and they just don't listen to reason. i don't advocate beating kids, because that is just cruel, but when we were growing up, smacking your kids was socially acceptable because we needed to be taught discipline, so why should it not be acceptable now? you can't sit a young child down and say 'this was wrong because..', they don't care unless they're being punished.
 

Tangent

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I believe that no good will come of hitting school kids, except make the child feel like crap, and instead of learning about what they did wrong, instead harbour negative feelings about the person who hit them, totally ignoring why they got hit.

Lewis's research has shown that strategies such as hinting, discussion, recognising and reward and involvement are far more effective in reducing misbehaviour than coercion, such as yelling, sarcasm and group punishment. Lewis found aggression was the only strategy that undermined the relationship between teacher and student and made students less likely to comply with expectations for behaviour. And the "ripple effect" - that punishing one student can have on others - is minimised when a teacher uses positive strategies, but exacerbated by the use of aggression...

...But it is the relationship between student and teacher that is paramount. Lewis says "years of sending a child off to the principal for discipline has done untold damage. It is just sending a child who is already struggling away". Lewis says punishment, when necessary, needs to come from the teacher, within a trusting and mutually respectful relationship.
I agree with all of what the good doctor says, but this part in particular. Really, school teachers have a big part in raising children too (primary), as they are at school for 6 hours a week, 5 days a week. During their primary school years they have the same teacher all day for the year, so it is easier to build a strong relationship with each student. It is also paramount that the bond is strong, so as the teacher tries to regulate their class, their decisions will be taken seriously by the student. It is also important that they are explained what they did wrong, instead of the teacher just handing out punishments.

Case Study: This happened when i was in year 6. We had this sub, and she was a nasty piece of work. She'd shout, and bang rulers on the desk. She made one of the girls in our class cry, who was one of the nicest people i'd ever met. So the whole class was angry at her, so we'd be disruptive just to spite her. She was pure evil =P

Also this year, i have a few friends that hate this one class. I've have spoken to other people in the same class and they have all said they are dropping it next year as well, because they really don't like being there, which is a shame because there are some really talented people in that class. The reason why everyone dislikes the class is because the teacher is immature, shouts and pays out students. Im not saying that some of the students arent at fault, but there are better ways of dealing with them, and his attitude brings down the whole class. Again, if the students repected him they would feel oblidged to listen to him, do their work and all in all have a more enjoyable time in class and at school.

There are usually reasons why kids misbehave, and it might not be the teacher. It could be their parents, other adults in their life, the quality of their lifestyle or abuse from other students. This is an important reason why teachers should never give up on a student. In high school this is hard because there are alot more students to cope with, and there is only a small amount of time a week that you have contact with them. Therefore it is more important to try and get them to respect you, to make use of the time in class, and for their welfare. hopefully because they are older they will be more cooperative, though this is mostly not the case- some kids just dont want to be at school anymore and cant see the point in learning. Even if this is so if there is the respective bond between the student and the teacher, then the student would listen to the teacher when they are asked to do something.

So we shouldn't resort to physical abuse, when all someone has to do it work alittle harder, and make everyones lives better.

Don't take the easy option.
 

Smile_Time351

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Does corporal punishment create productive members of society though?
If done right yes. To borrow from the arguments of Sirius, anyone who touches my kids other than me- fuck the courts, I'll string their asses up on meathooks.

This isn't to say I advocate parents beating their children, but corporal punishment is a necessary evil to raise productive members of society, at least in the early stages of childhood development. eg. I'm 17, and if my parents hit me now as punishment, I'd think they were weird and abusive, but I was smacked occasionally as a child, and it worked. Hence, my answer is yes.
 

Uncle

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no corporal punishment or no limits.

either show full care for your child and not hit them or, just kill your goddamn child if you hit them for any reason, let that dozen pack of lebs attack your child and say they deserve it, just like you say they deserve it when you hit them.
 
E

Empyrean444

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If done right yes. To borrow from the arguments of Sirius, anyone who touches my kids other than me- fuck the courts, I'll string their asses up on meathooks.

This isn't to say I advocate parents beating their children, but corporal punishment is a necessary evil to raise productive members of society, at least in the early stages of childhood development. eg. I'm 17, and if my parents hit me now as punishment, I'd think they were weird and abusive, but I was smacked occasionally as a child, and it worked. Hence, my answer is yes.
I don't believe that the odd smack will do any real damage, but it is most certainly not necessary. Suspension of privileges and the exercising of proper authority (ie not relenting to the child's demands) are at least as effectual in my view.
 

klaris

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It's simple. Child misbehaves. Gets a smack. Thinks: "

Better not do that again; otherwise I'll get a smack and they hurt."

See, simple.
 

Cookie182

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Hopefully science will advance to the stage where we can genetically predetermine a child's behavioural characteristics and weed out deliquency, resulting in no need for punishment at all :)
 

Cookie182

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It's simple. Child misbehaves. Gets a smack. Thinks: "

Better not do that again; otherwise I'll get a smack and they hurt."

See, simple.
Yea its pretty simple ey.

Teenager talks back to his dad. His dad punches him across the face, knocks him to the floor. Pride kicks in; teenager doesn't just lay there- he keeps talking. Dad, frustrated starts kicking him till he shuts up. Soon its a bloody mess with broken ribs, while the younger children look on and learn that "thats how we solve problems in life.":D:D

...Then your forgetting how many parents are fuckin drunks, which only makes the mix fun :p

I've discussed CP with people who went to high school through the seventies. It gave 90 % of predominately male-agressive teachers the chance to play God. Its not simply a hit with a ruler. A good family friend told me about the time he talked back, tried to dodge the cane- got taken to a backroom and smashed by two male teachers, broke his nose...

Only the "strict-father" conservatives need this primitive bs in their home. A nuturing, liberal environment (where open dialogue on issues occurs between parents/kids at a young age, boundaries are set and understood), coupled with love and mutual respect always leads to better outcomes, albeit, often no misbehaviour at all.
 

Cookie182

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I reckon you could tie the strong adoption of CP over the centuries to the predominance of "Christianity" in the home, throughout western societies...

It's easy to beat on a kid when your core philosophy is that we are all filthy sinners, worthless peices of shit heading for eternal torture unless we profess and conform to the rules...
 

Iron

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I agree. No other religion/culture/civilization, anywhere, at any time, has been more brutal with its children than the Christians. They are wrong and the world will only be right when they are gone
 

Cookie182

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I agree. No other religion/culture/civilization, anywhere, at any time, has been more brutal with its children than the Christians. They are wrong and the world will only be right when they are gone
*Western

Don't worry, I'm sure the Muslims are harsher...
 

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