State Ranking (2 Viewers)

[lyounamu]

Also I'd like to note that State Ranks aren't neccessarily based on external marks. Some others and myself have reliable data that first in external exams won't result in first in state, but first overall? An example is Agriculture last year.
Person A got 99/98 = 99
B got 98/98 = 98
C got 97/99 = 98
But they were ranked 1st 2nd 2rd in that way. You can see that C came first in the external exam but they didn't top the state.
However I must note that ABC are all from the same school

But you have to note that THEY ARE FROM SAME SCHOOL.

I have my own source of knowledge on this. At my school we had few state ranks for Physics few years ago (1st and 13th in the state)

The one who got 1st in the state was 2nd in the year at school (beaten by the 13th guy). Can anyone care to explain how that's the case? He came first in the state when he was ranked second in the year at my own school.

I think they rank people based on external first and look into your ranks secondly. If they are from same school, however, their method of ranking people might vary because it is relatively easier to rank people from same school because we have two sources of results (internal AND external) to rank people. But if you compare people from different schools, we only have one source of result which is HSC.

 

[dp624]

The one who got 1st in the state was 2nd in the year at school (beaten by the 13th guy). Can anyone care to explain how that's the case? He came first in the state when he was ranked second in the year at my own school.

OK, how about this.

A got 97/99 = 98
B got 99 (takes highest mark internally) but kinda effs up outside with 96 = 98

But A is 98.0, B is 97.5 -> Thus higher overall.

 

[Timothy.Siu]

Another tihng is, I don't think 3u is judged from 2u maths, that would be horrible. Most state rankers probably do 4u (or really should have done so lol)

yeah thats a good point, if they do compare 4u marks for 3u how do they compare people who do only 3u to people who do 4u, i.e. comparing 2unit marks with 4unit?

 

[lyounamu]

OK, how about this.

A got 97/99 = 98
B got 99 (takes highest mark internally) but kinda effs up outside with 96 = 98

But A is 98.0, B is 97.5 -> Thus higher overall.

But that cannot be the case for our school.

My school is not academically strong like yours meaning that the 1st and 13th guys got their marks swapped.

For your school, it's a different story where there are so many people who go from 3rd to 1st or 1st to 2nd or whatever meaning the exchange of marks wouldn't be truly mutual.

 

[lyounamu]

yeah thats a good point, if they do compare 4u marks for 3u how do they compare people who do only 3u to people who do 4u, i.e. comparing 2unit marks with 4unit?

In that case, I am assuming that 4 unit people will be given a preference?

That seems like the fairest way...wait...yeah...I am not sure about that one.

There was a guy who got state rank for both 2 unit and 3 unit (which is extremely rare). This is the guy called Samuel Gardam who came first in the state for 4 unit the year after.

He came like 10th in 3 unit...I wonder how he got his state rank...probably got high 3 unit raw result then...

 

[dp624]

But that cannot be the case for our school.

My school is not academically strong like yours meaning that the 1st and 13th guys got their marks swapped.

For your school, it's a different story where there are so many people who go from 3rd to 1st or 1st to 2nd or whatever meaning the exchange of marks wouldn't be truly mutual.

Actually I don't think the marks are actually swapped. Because the school not only sends in ranking but the relative differences between each student too. That means that, say the person 1st internally beat the 2nd guy by a smidgen only - less than the 2nd guy beating the 1st in externals. This would result in the person coming 2nd to come first.

Ok, i'll put numbers
A tops internal with 99.0, B comes 2nd with 98.8
In external, B gets a raw mark of 98, which moderates to 99. A gets a raw mark of 94, moderated to 96.

A is ranked first internally. Thus A gets 99, 96 = 98
Then B comes 2nd internally. He gets 98.8 for his internal mark and 99 external = 99 and 99 = 99

Maybe that instead? Moderation process is crazy lol

 

[lyounamu]

Actually I don't think the marks are actually swapped. Because the school not only sends in ranking but the relative differences between each student too. That means that, say the person 1st internally beat the 2nd guy by a smidgen only - less than the 2nd guy beating the 1st in externals. This would result in the person coming 2nd to come first.

Ok, i'll put numbers
A tops internal with 99.0, B comes 2nd with 98.8
In external, B gets a raw mark of 98, which moderates to 99. A gets a raw mark of 94, moderated to 96.

A is ranked first internally. Thus A gets 99, 96 = 98
Then B comes 2nd internally. He gets 98.8 for his internal mark and 99 external = 99 and 99 = 99

Maybe that instead? Moderation process is crazy lol

Ah..I see what you mean.

You are right. I should have realised that moderation process is MUCH more than just mark swapping. I was thinking in a very small scale.

But I still don't understand all this process. I think the best way to understand this is to ask people from BoS or ask people on BoS who end up getting state ranks for 3 unit or 4 unit - I am pretty sure there will be few...

 

[shaon0]

Ah..I see what you mean.

You are right. I should have realised that moderation process is MUCH more than just mark swapping. I was thinking in a very small scale.

But I still don't understand all this process. I think the best way to understand this is to ask people from BoS or ask people on BoS who end up getting state ranks for 3 unit or 4 unit - I am pretty sure there will be few...

*cough* lolokay and gurmies *cough*

 

[dp624]

*cough* lolokay and gurmies *cough*

But are they going to get it this year? I thought they weren't HSC08

 

[lyounamu]

*cough* lolokay and gurmies *cough*

you underestimate how difficult it is to get state ranks, don't you?

 

[shaon0]

But are they going to get it this year? I thought they weren't HSC08

No but in '09

 

[Timothy.Siu]

good luck to them, i roughly know how hard it is to get a state ranking...basically have to come 1st or 2nd in maths

 

[shaon0]

good luck to them, i roughly know how hard it is to get a state ranking...basically have to come 1st or 2nd in maths

Yeah thats true.

 

[lyounamu]

good luck to them, i roughly know how hard it is to get a state ranking...basically have to come 1st or 2nd in maths

at your own school? thomas is in your way.

 

[Trebla]

But you have to note that THEY ARE FROM SAME SCHOOL.

I have my own source of knowledge on this. At my school we had few state ranks for Physics few years ago (1st and 13th in the state)

The one who got 1st in the state was 2nd in the year at school (beaten by the 13th guy). Can anyone care to explain how that's the case? He came first in the state when he was ranked second in the year at my own school.

A similar thing happened at Ruse last year for Physics, where two people didn't even come first internally came first in the state. However, do keep in mind that the top mark for Physics is usually NOT 100, unlike Maths, so it's more likely the difference may be from the actual raw marks.

Also, it's hard to explain the ranking based on the actual HSC marks information, because you don't know the raw marks behind them. If two people get 98 in Agriculture, that doesn't necessarily mean they achieved the same raw mark. The uncertainty interval increases as you go lower down the ranks.

 

[dp624]

A similar thing happened at Ruse last year for Physics, where two people didn't even come first internally came first in the state. However, do keep in mind that the top mark for Physics is usually NOT 100, unlike Maths, so it's more likely the difference may be from the actual raw marks.

Also, it's hard to explain the ranking based on the actual HSC marks information, because you don't know the raw marks behind them. If two people get 98 in Agriculture, that doesn't necessarily mean they achieved the same raw mark.

LOL trebla the AG thing was from Ruse too.
Yeah the reason they equal topped it is because they had the SAME internal ranking (ruse gives out heaps of =ranks) and they got the exact same mark externally.
Top mark was 98 (97 in, 99 ext). This means that the person who topped internals screwed up exams. Also, to date, no-one from ruse who tops the internals comes first overall haha.

Also @ your comment on my Ag thing - yes they might not have gotten the raw mark. But by judging on the overall marks, it's not based on externals first then overall. If youre from the same school, it's overall first.

 

[lyounamu]

A similar thing happened at Ruse last year for Physics, where two people didn't even come first internally came first in the state. However, do keep in mind that the top mark for Physics is usually NOT 100, unlike Maths, so it's more likely the difference may be from the actual raw marks.

Also, it's hard to explain the ranking based on the actual HSC marks information, because you don't know the raw marks behind them. If two people get 98 in Agriculture, that doesn't necessarily mean they achieved the same raw mark. The uncertainty interval increases as you go lower down the ranks.

Yeah. I heard that two people came first in physics from Ruse last year. I am guessing that the difference betweent them in HSC corresponded nicely with the internal difference...

 

[dp624]

Yeah. I heard that two people came first in physics from Ruse last year. I am guessing that the difference betweent them in HSC corresponded nicely with the internal difference...

See my prev post and note that Ruse people have a lot of equal internal ranks.

 

[shaon0]

Aren't there a lot of equal ranks in selective schools?

 

[lyounamu]

See my prev post and note that Ruse people have a lot of equal internal ranks.

So were they equally ranked?

Can Ruse just give out same ranks? Or is it just that they happen to do so? I am assuming that they rank people based on whole number system. If not, there is NO WAY that they can give out so many same ranks.