Does God exist? (13 Viewers)

[moll.]

Hey Iron/Bradcube (no-one else cos all the other Christians here are philosophical and theological retards) can you answer me two quesions from a Catholic and Christian perspective? I ask in all seriousness, by the way, not just to be an annoying atheist trying to prove contradictions in your beliefs.

1) If each new soul created by God is an individual, unique and seperate entity to it's parent, how is original sin passed on? I was under the impression that the modern belief is that genetics guide physical and psychological development but has nothing to do with the creation of a transcendant soul which is entirely in God's domain.

2) For children born out of wedlock, would not God's actions in creating them make Him an accessory to adultery and bastardry?

I'm sure I could have come up with some sort of theological or biblical explanation to explain them, but it would no doubt have been tinged and tainted by my own beliefs, so I was after your interpretations.

 

[Iron]

On the first point, I would say that the sin is first here in the world rather than our souls because we are made in the God's image of perfection. Babies are sinless. Yes?

Dont understand the second point. The parents created the child; God only gave them the ability and advised them of the True way. Just because we fail to form life under more dignified circumstances/divine instruction doesnt mean that our ability to create life will be altered, or that the life created is any less important to God/equal in His eyes

 

[moll.]

On the first point, I would say that the sin is first here in the world rather than our souls because we are made in the God's image of perfection. Babies are sinless. Yes?

Dont understand the second point. The parents created the child; God only gave them the ability and advised them of the True way. Just because we fail to form life under more dignified circumstances/divine instruction doesnt mean that our ability to create life will be altered, or that the life created is any less important to God/equal in His eyes

But doesn't God create life, not just the parents?

 

[Iron]

Na it's the parents. They can also choose to prevent or abort life. This is not God's decision. The soul though - ah, that is something different and poses a genuine problem

Ofc in the ultimate sense, He created life on earth, but after that it has been up to us and boy did we drop the ball, oh meeerrcy. Therefore Christ offers life again - rebirth

 

[moll.]

Iron, are you partially deistic? Do you believe that God doesn't micromanage our affairs?
I'm not sure whether to be surprised or impressed.

 

[Iron]

..

yesRun!

 

[Graney]

Since when has there been a poll, a public poll, on this thread?

Silver persian is a theist?

 

[Charizard]

Ofc in the ultimate sense, He created life on earth, but after that it has been up to us and boy did we drop the ball, oh meeerrcy. Therefore Christ offers life again - rebirth

This sentence made my blood boil.

Dropped the ball?

 

[moll.]

This sentence made my blood boil.

Dropped the ball?

What?
He has a point. The vast majority of humanity is despicable and immoral at the best of times.
The more accurate question however would be whether we were ever holding the damn ball to begin with.

 

[moll.]

are you denying that God is omnipotent?

Don't be a moron.
Just because he's omnipotent doesn't mean he has an obligation to contradict the biological or physical rules which He has created, nor must he intervene in everyday life. Just because you have the ability to do something, doesn't mean your obligated to.

 

[SylviaB]

to be fair, god is a major fucking hypocrite.


He/Jesus makes a special point of making sure we forgive those "who have sinned against us", and then you know, the original sin, something that happened thousands of years ago, something ENTIRELY out of our control, and god punishes it for us and holds a grudge against us (ie. not forgiving). This isn't just a lifelong grudge because someone boned your wife, this is a multi-millenia grudge against people who is not in any way or form responsible for.

 

[moll.]

to be fair, god is a major fucking hypocrite.


He/Jesus makes a special point of making sure we forgive those "who have sinned against us", and then you know, the original sin, something that happened thousands of years ago, something ENTIRELY out of our control, and god punishes it for us and holds a grudge against us (ie. not forgiving). This isn't just a lifelong grudge because someone boned your wife, this is a multi-millenia grudge against people who is not in any way or form responsible for.

Or you could take what appears to be Iron's view and beleive that original sin is in fact the failure of will power in the face of temptation, and thus, because all humans will sin at some stage in their lives, original sin permeates throughout society and is inherited as part of being human.

 

[SylviaB]

original sin permeates throughout society and is inherited as part of being human.

See: not my fault. It's inheireted.

If it's INHEIRANT then I have no choice not to sin.

you are responsible for God's judgment on you not God, you sinned and he did not make you, thus it is your fault, and he has every right to judge you for it.

Not his fault?

HMMM.
Let's see. Who made the tree of knowledge?
Who made it so that consumption of fruit from this tree makes you 'sinful'?
Who made this tree with the knowledge that Satan would convince the only humans alive to eat from it (God is omniscient)?

Seriously??

And stop having your cake and eating it too.

Christian: You're BORN a sinner! ALL humans are born with sinful hearts!

Other Christian: It was YOUR CHOICE to sin. so you face the consequences.

Uh, hello?

you can be forgiven you just have to believe in jesus and live for him.

Stop telling me WHAT you believe and start telling me WHY.

 

[SylviaB]

@Emmy

We evolved. There's no denying it.

If god exists, then he must have made us evolve.

It is because because of evolution, not some magical fruit, that we have lustful desires.

Thus, god caused us to have these desires. And then he turns around and says that thy're sinful.
That's just fucking cruel.

 

[Kwayera]

umm lust is sinful and is only with us because of our sin.

How is lust an important emotion, i would argue it is a damaging emotion.

How is lust damaging? It'd suck to have sex with someone you didn't lust after, i.e. have sexual arousal/attraction for.

 

[SylviaB]

How is lust an important emotion, i would argue it is a damaging emotion.

IF we didn't have lust we wouldn't want to have sex and we would all die out.

Fucking think.

 

[moll.]

umm lust is sinful and is only with us because of our sin.

How is lust an important emotion, i would argue it is a damaging emotion.

But masturbation is fun! It doesn't hurt anyone! Ergo, no damage!

...

brb, masturbating.

 

[SylviaB]

how is there no denying evolution, sure we can adapt to our environment but we did not come from apes

Can someone PLEASE tell me how this bitch has two green blocks. Seriously??

 

[Kwayera]

how is there no denying evolution, sure we can adapt to our environment but we did not come from apes

We still are apes.

YouTube - 8 -- Human Evolution Made Easy

YouTube - 9 - Human Ancestry Made Easy

 

[moll.]

See: not my fault. It's inheireted.

If it's INHEIRANT then I have no choice not to sin.

Uhhh... I think that the line of thinking is that whilst being human and being tempted is perfectly natural and excusable, giving into these temptations is your fault, as at no point are you forced to do so. Although what constitutes a sin is up for debate.

There's another line of theological and philosophical thinking popular during the Middle Ages that original sin was actually inherited from your parents by the act of sexual intercourse which was itself a sin. Thus Jesus was the only sinless being, as he was born of a virgin.
I believe this line of thinking was abandoned soon after adoption, however, due to it's implications for population decline and a fall in devotees.