UNSW Law/Commerce vs UTS Law/Business - Transfer questions included (2 Viewers)

[Spoken12]

But with a twist. I'd say this is a somewhat unique situation.

Basically, with my ATAR I can get into the double degree of B Business/B Law combined at UTS next year straight away. At UNSW, however, I cannot enter into the double degree of B Com/B Law immediately as my ATAR is not high enough. I can however enter into the B Commerce without the Law double. The plan would be to transfer in the second year at UNSW internally into a double degree of Law/Com second year.

The predicament I face is slightly complex. Basically, the decision comes down to a few questions.

a) Which is the 'better' uni in terms of the two faculties of Business and Law? (i.e. Vocational prospects, prestige, reputation, teaching, recognition etc etc)

b) If the answer to a) is an unequivocal "UNSW!" then how hard is it to transfer second year internally to turn my B Com into a B Law/B Com combined? What marks would be needed first year? Distinction average or credit average... or? Is there a risk involved in pursuing this or is it relatively easy to attain the marks to do the transfer? The twist is that I am not great at maths, I only did General Maths. I got 92... but it's still General. How hard is the compulsory stats first year, and can you tailor the Commerce degree to reduce the harder maths components to virtual non-existence? I think the major I would do in my Com degree would be Accounting or Economics... is there a way to do either (and if so which one more so) with not so much maths? I ask because if the maths is too hard then obviously I wouldn't get the D average or whatever it is and thus my transfer would be ruined. Thus what type of risk do I face? I guess it's the certainty of starting my double degree with no need to transfer at UTS vs. the reward of risking going to UNSW needing a transfer but for a better and more thorough experience at Uni and in the future through my degree? I guess the big question in this then, is: how hard is the maths?

c) In terms of social life, etc? I mean, convenience wise I live very close to UNSW. What about fees? Are they similar?

Thanks guys. Really appreciate your time.

EDIT: d) Also, would I lose time (i.e. take longer to complete the double degree) if I pursued the UNSW venture as opposed to going to UTS?

 

[inJust]

a) The General consensus is that UNSW is better, but quite honestly, UTS is moving up and you really can't go wrong if you have good extra-curriculars/experience etc.
b) From what I've heard, you need an 80 WAM. And apparently it's not quite hard if you knuckle down and really try your guts out even for someone who didn't do maths at all.
c) I think if it's convenient for you, then I think you know the answer to it. As for fees, pretty much the same cos they're both public universities.
d) No because your units will count towards your law/comm degress anyway, unless you were doing arts then transfer to law/comm which you aren't.

Merry Christmas

 

[Spoken12]

Merry Christmas

That's sound advice. Thanks for that. Anyone with anything else to add?

 

[Trans4M]

a) UNSW generally has the better prestrige and recognition. Go8 (Group of 8) unis have lots of recognition in the workplace. UNSW is one but UTS isn't. That said, it doesn't mean you cannot find a job if you graduate at UTS.

b) The law faculty says you need a WAM of 80 but this year they have accepted people with a WAM of 76. They must accept at least 100 students through the transfer system and so the WAM requirement will vary slightly from year to year.

STATS can be a bit confusing. I am still pretty confused about the linear regression stuff. However, we do have PASS (free peer tutoring session) for this course where senior students go through the previous weeks materials and allow you to ask questions you are not sure of. If you doubt yourself, you could delay STATS to the following year as it's not a prerequisite for any course except for like some economics and econometric courses.

There are 4 compulsory courses you must do. ACCT1501 (Accounting Financial Management 1A), ECON1101 (Microeconomics 1), ECON1203 (Business Economic Statistics and MGMT1001 (Managing Organisations and People). You can then tailor the rest of your degree to do like theory commerce courses or very simple calculations.

Yeap you can do an accounting major at UNSW. You can also do an economics major.

c) I think if you live closer to UNSW then it's a good reason to go there. Fees wise, I think UNSW might be a bit more expensive but not significantly more expensive.

d) Nope. Since you are doing the same plan but combining it with Law.

If you still have any queries feel free to contact me.

 

[Spoken12]

Wow mate. Thank you so much, I REALLY appreciate it. Let me take you up on that offer of more queries

In terms of achieving a WAM of ~80, (I know this is a difficult question to ask as it will vary from student to student), but just how hard is it to attain? Bearing in mind there is that compulsory course of Business/Eco stats and I "only" did General Maths (albeit, a Band 6). I did amazingly well in HSC Business Studies and Economics, but I've been told that has no correlation to a Commerce degree.

Also, that brings me to the next question. What would be the best major to choose in a Commerce degree in order to minimise the HIGHER mathematics components (i.e. basic mathematics is fine - although what you consider basic and I consider basic are probably worlds apart, so view it from a student that excelled in General Maths only)? Can you major in economics for example, without getting into the gritty econometrics stuff aswell as similar math? What about accounting? What is the best major to choose so you can structure it to involve little to none "hard" maths in the first year as to increase chances of achieving the approximate ~80 WAM?

Cheers.

 

[Drifting95]

Wow mate. Thank you so much, I REALLY appreciate it. Let me take you up on that offer of more queries

In terms of achieving a WAM of ~80, (I know this is a difficult question to ask as it will vary from student to student), but just how hard is it to attain? Bearing in mind there is that compulsory course of Business/Eco stats and I "only" did General Maths (albeit, a Band 6). I did amazingly well in HSC Business Studies and Economics, but I've been told that has no correlation to a Commerce degree.

Also, that brings me to the next question. What would be the best major to choose in a Commerce degree in order to minimise the HIGHER mathematics components (i.e. basic mathematics is fine - although what you consider basic and I consider basic are probably worlds apart, so view it from a student that excelled in General Maths only)? Can you major in economics for example, without getting into the gritty econometrics stuff aswell as similar math? What about accounting? What is the best major to choose so you can structure it to involve little to none "hard" maths in the first year as to increase chances of achieving the approximate ~80 WAM?

Cheers.

I think you would be better of sticking to an Accounting major if you only did general maths, economics is more for people who did 2/3 unit maths from looking at the assumed knowledge of courses like Macquarie, however this could be different to UNSW.

 

[asadass]

Economics gets quite mathematical in the final years of the degree.

 

[Trans4M]

Wow mate. Thank you so much, I REALLY appreciate it. Let me take you up on that offer of more queries

In terms of achieving a WAM of ~80, (I know this is a difficult question to ask as it will vary from student to student), but just how hard is it to attain? Bearing in mind there is that compulsory course of Business/Eco stats and I "only" did General Maths (albeit, a Band 6). I did amazingly well in HSC Business Studies and Economics, but I've been told that has no correlation to a Commerce degree.

Also, that brings me to the next question. What would be the best major to choose in a Commerce degree in order to minimise the HIGHER mathematics components (i.e. basic mathematics is fine - although what you consider basic and I consider basic are probably worlds apart, so view it from a student that excelled in General Maths only)? Can you major in economics for example, without getting into the gritty econometrics stuff aswell as similar math? What about accounting? What is the best major to choose so you can structure it to involve little to none "hard" maths in the first year as to increase chances of achieving the approximate ~80 WAM?

Cheers.

For some people it's hard to get 80 WAM. However, if you put in the effort I think it is not too difficult to attain. Most of the 1st year courses are straight forward with some courses focusing on essay writing e.g. MGMT1001.

Actually HSC Economics does help somewhat for 1st year uni. I didn't do HSC Economics so I wouldn'tknow but my friends who did said Microeconomics 1 (ECON1101) is the same as Prelim Eco + other stuff and Macroeconomics 1 (ECON1102) is the same as HSC Eco + Other stuff.

You do not take majors until 2nd year. You need to do the core courses and some flexi courses. They do that so you can have a feel of every major. Management and Marketing majors involve like zero maths. Accounting has a bit of maths. They are pretty straight forward but there are some complicated formulars to remember (very easy to apply though) e.g. Depreciation.

An economics major requires you to do ECON1202 which apparently is like 2U/3U maths. I didn't do it as I am not majoring in it. However, my friend who did 4U (he didn't do well in 4u) received only a credit for ECON1202 as he was a bit confused.

For 1st sem you need to take ACCT1501, ECON1101, ECON1203 and MGMT1001. However, you can delay some subjects and replace it with other subjects.

In Sem 2 you need to pick 4 courses from the following list ACCT1511, ECON1102, FINS1613, INFS1602, MARK1012 and LEGT1710. I probably wouldn't take LEGT1710 as I know law students are not permitted to enrol in any course with codes LEGT. I don't know what happens with people who did LEGT1710 and then transferred into law.

ACCT1511 is an extension of ACCT1501 with simple math calculations.

ECON1102 is Macroeconomics (apparently like HSC Economics)

FINS1613 is finance with lots of calculations. A lot of it has to do with discounting cashflows so if you are fine with dividing by (1 + r)^x where x is any integer, I think you should be fine.

INFS1602 (didn't do) but apparently alot of case studies, mostly theory.

MARK1012 is lots of content but very straightforward.

I Achieved a Commerce WAM of 81.5 from doing ACCT1501, ACCT1511, ECON1101, ECON1102, ECON1203, MGMT1001, MARK1012 and FINS1613. I didn't do well in ECON1101 and ECON1102. I almost failed my midsem for ECON1101, however managed to get an end result of Distinction after the finals. For ECON1102 I only got a low credit. The courses I did were pretty straight foward and I think it shouldn't be too hard for you to achieve approximately 80 WAM with those courses.

I think you would be better of sticking to an Accounting major if you only did general maths, economics is more for people who did 2/3 unit maths from looking at the assumed knowledge of courses like Macquarie, however this could be different to UNSW.

Economics gets quite mathematical in the final years of the degree.

yeap

 

[Dr.Dan]

I've just graduated from a combined degree of Business(accounting) and information technology @ UTS and I'm going to give you the Harsh truth about this question you've asked.

My background: Obtained a high enough UAI for both courses you want to head into but decided to go to UTS for flexibility and location purposes. I now work at a big 4 accounting firm as of next year and have just completed my degree.


a)Business and Law are both excellent at both universities. The accounting firm I work at actually has a higher number of UTS grads then UNSW grads. That "group 8" argument is complete bull crap. The only university you want to avoid for Law (out of the most well known) is UWS - this is because employers don't employ UWS Law grads; the course is taught on a silver platter. How do i know this? I've studied, worked and trained with so many UTS/UNSW/UWS law/business students throughout my professional and academic life.

b. Don't transfer it's an absolute waste of time and money. UTS/UNSW/USYD are well known amongst employers and the most respected. I had the same mentality as you did 4 years ago. Honestly, don't waste your time.
GO INTO Combined LAW now and graduate as young as possible to enjoy life. This meticulous crap of reputation in a name, ESPECIALLY when comparing between two highly regarded universities as UTS and UNSW is just crap, i'm sorry.

c. In terms of social life? You're social life will be a product of how outgoing and social you can be. I went to soooo many Round-house parties at UNSW and campus parties throughout my studies at UTS. They are both fairly close to each other. What about my existing friends? (You might be thinking) Well i'm also sorry but this is going to be a wake up. You will lose contact with a few of your friends after your first year of uni, but you'll meet new people no matter where you go. It's a result of the "Transitivity" of highschool-university. It's sad I know.

d. Yes you will lose time for NO REASON. When comparing UTS to UNSW, employers don't care there isn't that much of a difference. As mentioned, just dont go to UWS. I Can't stress to you how important it is to embed yourself into uni once you start, you should embrace studies etc and not have to worry about changing etc.


Just my advice but hey, you can do whatever you want.

 

[Trans4M]

^The things you have said are true but could you please explain how you will lose time through transferring? A law transfer student will also graduate within 5 years just like a law student that started from 1st year.

 

[ali2536]

^The things you have said are true but could you please explain how you will lose time through transferring? A law transfer student will also graduate within 5 years just like a law student that started from 1st year.

Agreed ~ I'm planning to do law this way

 

[Dr.Dan]

^The things you have said are true but could you please explain how you will lose time through transferring? A law transfer student will also graduate within 5 years just like a law student that started from 1st year.

It's rare that a University, and I mean ANY university, will accept ALL the units you have completed as equal equivalency. This means you still need to undertake some subjects from first year/first semester, or whenever you decide to transfer, from that newly transferred course. Thus it doesn't extend the length of that degree you just transferred into but it extends your total time at university.

For example: if you transfer after your first year, they may require you to undertake first year subjects from UNSW in what would be your second year of study at UTS.

I honestly can't see the logic in trying to transfer. Even though I went to UTS, I'm not giving a biased opinion. It's rare that a post-grad comes on these forums, it seems, but I'm just filling in spare time in my holidays trying to help you guys make a sound decision. I can't tell you how many people I know who end up in a pitfall of transferring between universities then... they don't make as many friends, get lost along the way and end up regretting transferring.

Can I ask the O.P why you think UNSW is better? The only degree I whole-heartedly think UNSW shit's on UTS in is Information Technology or what they refer to as Computer Science.

UTS business and Law are soooo highly regarded in the work-force... I just can't fathom your reasoning in wanting to transfer.

 

[Dr.Dan]

I think you would be better of sticking to an Accounting major if you only did general maths, economics is more for people who did 2/3 unit maths from looking at the assumed knowledge of courses like Macquarie, however this could be different to UNSW.

No........................


My closest mate just got a credit in Investment Analysis of the Finance major in his double degree @ UTS and he only did general maths. Thatsubject has a 45% fail rate.

It just means you need to put in more effort.

If your future employment requires you to major in Finance/Economics/ Accounting then DO IT, you can't go back and change your major; simply make the effort and pull your weight to pass the subject.

 

[Trans4M]

It's rare that a University, and I mean ANY university, will accept ALL the units you have completed as equal equivalency. This means you still need to undertake some subjects from first year/first semester, or whenever you decide to transfer, from that newly transferred course. Thus it doesn't extend the length of that degree you just transferred into but it extends your total time at university.

For example: if you transfer after your first year, they may require you to undertake first year subjects from UNSW in what would be your second year of study at UTS.

I honestly can't see the logic in trying to transfer. Even though I went to UTS, I'm not giving a biased opinion. It's rare that a post-grad comes on these forums, it seems, but I'm just filling in spare time in my holidays trying to help you guys make a sound decision. I can't tell you how many people I know who end up in a pitfall of transferring between universities then... they don't make as many friends, get lost along the way and end up regretting transferring.

The thing is those that start a law degree in 1st year only complete 2 law courses and are behind by 2 courses in their other degree. Transfer students are ahead by 2 courses from their original degree. Thus all the courses they do will be accepted.

I don't think OP is trying to transfer between unis. He is planning to transfer from UNSW Commerce to UNSW Commerce/Law.

Also I really appreciate you advice and think many of the other people reading it will also appreciate it.

 

[Dr.Dan]

Yea not a problem, it'll please me to know students are a bit more aware of what goes on.

That's basically what im doing with coaching the guys who contact me, but i'm setting them up career wise.

 

[gmaster9793]

@Dr Dan would you know from experience if employers value Commerce/Laws graduates from Macquarie since its ranked lower than USYD & UNSW but higher than UTS. Most lawyers I've met have graduated from that exact degree. Just wondering whether I should take that offer Commerce/Law at MQU or Business/Law at UTS?

Cheers

 

[krnofdrg]

Good thing about UTS law is that you do not have to go to the college of law, which can save you a few amount of months

Also, UTS is getting there as mentioned, so I would take this path.

 

[J18134]

Id rather do the commerce at UNSW. If you dont get into through the transfer, UNSW has a great JD program.

 

[brent012]

@Dr Dan would you know from experience if employers value Commerce/Laws graduates from Macquarie since its ranked lower than USYD & UNSW but higher than UTS. Most lawyers I've met have graduated from that exact degree. Just wondering whether I should take that offer Commerce/Law at MQU or Business/Law at UTS?

Cheers

Ranks are mostly about research, they do not mean much for undergraduate degrees. From my understanding a lot of the prestige in law degrees is tied in with the cut offs of the courses and Macquarie is lower than UNSW/Usyd/UTS, even if my assumption there is not true (which it likely is lol, im not talking from experience) i have definitely read that UTS > Macq for law in multiple places. That's a massive generalisation though, a good student from almost any uni can stand out from the masses with good grades and extracurriculars.

EDIT: Also, btw, what have you got offers for at the moment? If you have the UTS law/business offer at the moment which im guessing you do, are you sure you will even be able to get an offer at UNSW for commerce in the late round? It's EXTREMELY competitive to get those final few places left from people who declines.

 

[Kingportable]

b. Don't transfer it's an absolute waste of time and money. UTS/UNSW/USYD are well known amongst employers and the most respected. .

Hey how does Macquarie Fair? I just got accepted, All i know is Greg Coffey graduated there and he was a trading superstar in London i think he did applied finance but Mq's website said he did economics. I am doing B. Economics haha.