What is it like to be at the top? (3 Viewers)

[QZP]

State-rankers, high achievers, and olympiads: How did you find school?

Your natural talent and passion for a subject converges into curiosity which you wish you satisfy. You begin to explore; your knowledge surpasses the HSC syllabus, dwelling into (low)-level university content. But you don't completely understand it and this crazily irritates you. Ordinary teachers can no longer satisfy what you want to know...

What did you do from here? Did teachers actually play a vital role in your success?

This may be a stupid question... but I am just interested in the lives of such people.

 

[hayabusaboston]

SuperSAIyan2, we need an input from u brah.

But anyway, I wouldn't call myself a prodigy by any means or anything, but ive had a few successes and passions which drove me to great lengths while in school. I find a restrictive environment really kills off ur passions and desire to succeed. I was dreaming of completing ext 1 and ext 2 maths in yr 9, which was possible JUST THE YEAR BEFORE I came to my particular high school (My school allowed anyone who had the capacity to do HSC maths to complete the HSC, regardless of age) but then head teacher decided no more acceleration, and he's leaving HSC maths to yr 12.

This really destroyed my great passion and motivation in maths, and I just stopped doing it really, in favour of languages and physics (Another thing I was obsessed with, learning the techniques of uni physics, I really wanted to learn the maths behind general relativity). Though as yr 9 and yr 10 went by, it seemed I just had nothing to do with the knowledge I was acquiring, and so progressively each of my ambitions was killed off as I realised that I cant do anything with it, im still in high school and not in uni for another few years.

Other fields in which I ventured into uni level include neuroscience and medicine (got all my cousins [Med school graduate of karolinska institutet, Sweden] med books and went thru all of them, was most interested in neuroanatomy) and computational linguistics, I entered the linguistics olympiad with 3 peeps from my school and we came top 10 in australia And the national neuroscience comp I came 3rd. I researched spanish and japanese to great depth, and wrote poems in both languages. I Won a few international writing competitions, with prize money totalling about 3500 dollars. Spelling bees, came 2nd in every one LOL, but it was 2nd at the highest level, one national spelling bee and the others state level. I sat the equivalent of HSC english except in Polish in poland, and got something like 97 percent in the exam. It was part of a language tutoring camp, not official exam.

From my great passion for the brain, science and mathematics came a desire to become a neuroradiologist, and to earn the $600k the average radiologist in australia gets. I dreamt of going to Harvard, of becoming a top student at their med school, as well when I visited my cousin in stockholm I walked the halls of the place where the Nobel Prizes are awarded, and told myself, I would be there one day, not as a tourist, but a recipient of the prize.

AND THEN came along HSC, and by that time id become so suppressed I just stuck to the routine of each of my subjects. And now idk what to do anymore with myself after HSC, lost my desire for medicine, science and maths and would rather do acting, but oh so many barriers and obstacles exist in the hollywood world


So Idk if im "at the top" as per your thread title, but ive certainly done a large variety of things in my childhood.

I believe school has significantly "killed off" my dreams and ambitions, to a point where I wonder what to do with myself these days.

 

[QZP]

You definitely fit into my criteria. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences (quite an extensive one at that)! I have my own long-term goals in life (engineering/leader) and am an above-average achiever myself, but consistently seeing teachers not being able to fuel the creativity produced from students (or otherwise satisfying it) makes me depressed and lack motivation.
I want to create change (yes that is very ambiguous but I've thought about it and it's too difficult to put exactly into words how I feel).

 

[RealiseNothing]

You don't need teachers to satisfy your needs.

By the end of year 11 I was much better at maths than my teachers, you just got to be ambitious and try new things for yourself without the approval/guidance of some one else

 

[Menomaths]

SuperSAIyan2, we need an input from u brah.

But anyway, I wouldn't call myself a prodigy by any means or anything, but ive had a few successes and passions which drove me to great lengths while in school. I find a restrictive environment really kills off ur passions and desire to succeed. I was dreaming of completing ext 1 and ext 2 maths in yr 9, which was possible JUST THE YEAR BEFORE I came to my particular high school (My school allowed anyone who had the capacity to do HSC maths to complete the HSC, regardless of age) but then head teacher decided no more acceleration, and he's leaving HSC maths to yr 12.

This really destroyed my great passion and motivation in maths, and I just stopped doing it really, in favour of languages and physics (Another thing I was obsessed with, learning the techniques of uni physics, I really wanted to learn the maths behind general relativity). Though as yr 9 and yr 10 went by, it seemed I just had nothing to do with the knowledge I was acquiring, and so progressively each of my ambitions was killed off as I realised that I cant do anything with it, im still in high school and not in uni for another few years.

Other fields in which I ventured into uni level include neuroscience and medicine (got all my cousins [Med school graduate of karolinska institutet, Sweden] med books and went thru all of them, was most interested in neuroanatomy) and computational linguistics, I entered the linguistics olympiad with 3 peeps from my school and we came top 10 in australia And the national neuroscience comp I came 3rd. I researched spanish and japanese to great depth, and wrote poems in both languages. I Won a few international writing competitions, with prize money totalling about 3500 dollars. Spelling bees, came 2nd in every one LOL, but it was 2nd at the highest level, one national spelling bee and the others state level. I sat the equivalent of HSC english except in Polish in poland, and got something like 97 percent in the exam. It was part of a language tutoring camp, not official exam.

From my great passion for the brain, science and mathematics came a desire to become a neuroradiologist, and to earn the $600k the average radiologist in australia gets. I dreamt of going to Harvard, of becoming a top student at their med school, as well when I visited my cousin in stockholm I walked the halls of the place where the Nobel Prizes are awarded, and told myself, I would be there one day, not as a tourist, but a recipient of the prize.

AND THEN came along HSC, and by that time id become so suppressed I just stuck to the routine of each of my subjects. And now idk what to do anymore with myself after HSC, lost my desire for medicine, science and maths and would rather do acting, but oh so many barriers and obstacles exist in the hollywood world


So Idk if im "at the top" as per your thread title, but ive certainly done a large variety of things in my childhood.

I believe school has significantly "killed off" my dreams and ambitions, to a point where I wonder what to do with myself these days.

wtf is this essay response?

 

[obliviousninja]

wtf is this essay response?

better than my AOS.

 

[superSAIyan2]

You don't need teachers to satisfy your needs.

The Board of Studies has done too much to emphasise this point.

 

[hayabusaboston]

You don't need teachers to satisfy your needs.

By the end of year 11 I was much better at maths than my teachers, you just got to be ambitious and try new things for yourself without the approval/guidance of some one else

I agree, however I take a psychologically different stance to you. I have an inherent desire, or more like obsession, to prove myself to others, and take no satisfaction in my knowledge unless others know about it. That is just a trait ive been born with, do not criticise me for it, it is something deeply rooted in my subconsciousness, the desire to compete and prove my worth, rather than be satisfied with profound knowledge which is isolated in my own little world.
I take no satisfaction in my achievements on their own, unless I can compare them to benchmarks

I was ambitious, however without the approval of others I drained. That is how I am, you may be different. You are lucky in that case.

 

[Menomaths]

I agree, however I take a psychologically different stance to you. I have an inherent desire, or more like obsession, to prove myself to others

We are similar. I also have an inherent desire and obsession but to belong. I crave for camaraderie.

 

[Saraneth]

I'm "at the top" for my school, but I go to a small school with classes ranging between 4-15 people, so it's not that much of an achievement. However, being top means having a reputation for getting everything right and knowing everything, which I know I don't deserve as I am only very human and make just as many mistakes as others. I get this kind of paranoia when I answer something in class that if it's wrong people are gonna make a big deal out of it.
Also I feel like I have to do well, otherwise I let my teachers down. Other than that, teachers having a good impression of you really works in your favour as they tend to be a little biased in your favour.

I've gone through my entire highschool career without having to study or stress, and I worry that these habits are really going to make me fail in university.

 

[iBibah]

I agree, however I take a psychologically different stance to you. I have an inherent desire, or more like obsession, to prove myself to others, and take no satisfaction in my knowledge unless others know about it. That is just a trait ive been born with, do not criticise me for it, it is something deeply rooted in my subconsciousness, the desire to compete and prove my worth, rather than be satisfied with profound knowledge which is isolated in my own little world.
I take no satisfaction in my achievements on their own, unless I can compare them to benchmarks

I was ambitious, however without the approval of others I drained. That is how I am, you may be different. You are lucky in that case.

So what you're saying is you weren't really 'passionate' for those things, but rather your aptitude in them led to 'fame', popularity or other peoples interest in you and that's what drove you to keep going?

Because that's not something "rooted" in your subconsciousness. That can be changed.

 

[leesh95]

SuperSAIyan2, we need an input from u brah.

But anyway, I wouldn't call myself a prodigy by any means or anything, but ive had a few successes and passions which drove me to great lengths while in school. I find a restrictive environment really kills off ur passions and desire to succeed. I was dreaming of completing ext 1 and ext 2 maths in yr 9, which was possible JUST THE YEAR BEFORE I came to my particular high school (My school allowed anyone who had the capacity to do HSC maths to complete the HSC, regardless of age) but then head teacher decided no more acceleration, and he's leaving HSC maths to yr 12.

This really destroyed my great passion and motivation in maths, and I just stopped doing it really, in favour of languages and physics (Another thing I was obsessed with, learning the techniques of uni physics, I really wanted to learn the maths behind general relativity). Though as yr 9 and yr 10 went by, it seemed I just had nothing to do with the knowledge I was acquiring, and so progressively each of my ambitions was killed off as I realised that I cant do anything with it, im still in high school and not in uni for another few years.

Other fields in which I ventured into uni level include neuroscience and medicine (got all my cousins [Med school graduate of karolinska institutet, Sweden] med books and went thru all of them, was most interested in neuroanatomy) and computational linguistics, I entered the linguistics olympiad with 3 peeps from my school and we came top 10 in australia And the national neuroscience comp I came 3rd. I researched spanish and japanese to great depth, and wrote poems in both languages. I Won a few international writing competitions, with prize money totalling about 3500 dollars. Spelling bees, came 2nd in every one LOL, but it was 2nd at the highest level, one national spelling bee and the others state level. I sat the equivalent of HSC english except in Polish in poland, and got something like 97 percent in the exam. It was part of a language tutoring camp, not official exam.

From my great passion for the brain, science and mathematics came a desire to become a neuroradiologist, and to earn the $600k the average radiologist in australia gets. I dreamt of going to Harvard, of becoming a top student at their med school, as well when I visited my cousin in stockholm I walked the halls of the place where the Nobel Prizes are awarded, and told myself, I would be there one day, not as a tourist, but a recipient of the prize.

AND THEN came along HSC, and by that time id become so suppressed I just stuck to the routine of each of my subjects. And now idk what to do anymore with myself after HSC, lost my desire for medicine, science and maths and would rather do acting, but oh so many barriers and obstacles exist in the hollywood world


So Idk if im "at the top" as per your thread title, but ive certainly done a large variety of things in my childhood.

I believe school has significantly "killed off" my dreams and ambitions, to a point where I wonder what to do with myself these days.

dafuq

 

[seanieg89]

State-rankers, high achievers, and olympiads: How did you find school?

Your natural talent and passion for a subject converges into curiosity which you wish you satisfy. You begin to explore; your knowledge surpasses the HSC syllabus, dwelling into (low)-level university content. But you don't completely understand it and this crazily irritates you. Ordinary teachers can no longer satisfy what you want to know...

What did you do from here? Did teachers actually play a vital role in your success?

This may be a stupid question... but I am just interested in the lives of such people.

I don't know if I quite meet your criteria but I can offer some of my experience as a high achiever in mathematics with some olympiad background.

Basically mathematics started out just as the easiest way for me to prove myself academically, I can be quite a competitive person and it felt good being able to cruise in that subject (in terms of number of study hours) yet still beat pretty much everyone (in my school at least). It helped that I had an older sister whose old textbooks I used to read so I was always a few years ahead. It was only when I started getting involved in olympiad maths in yr11 that the beauty of mathematics really struck me, especially things like number theory (the mathematics of the primes essentially). It was also around this time that I realised that there will always be people better than me mathematically, and that it was important for my development to surround myself with such people. At this point, curiosity, and desire to understand the myriad of weird structures in mathematics overtook my desire to "beat other people".

In contrast to hayas last post, knowledge now means just as much to me whether or not people know about it or recognise it (beyond the pragmatic reality that is the academic rat race). It just feels good, and the rush of solving problems never fades. It's like reading a thrilling mystery novel, its impossible to stop thinking about how it's going to end!

Re: my teachers.
Not particularly, I have always been pretty independent in my learning and high school teachers on average have a tendency to be a little inflexible. Fortunately, the top class had a very good Russian PhD teaching in Yr11&12 so he was much more flexible and much more willing to answer some of the weird questions I had but otherwise let me do my own thing. Maths was pretty much a free for me in those years which was great.

 

[hayabusaboston]

K, maybe I'm just the weird one who gets bored and discouraged without approval of others haha. Ibibah perhaps it can be changed, and you have indeed got a very good understanding of what I wrote, which I wasn't expecting anyone to have, but it really is an integral part of my nature to compare myself to others, I can't just sit there and go ahead in something on my own for very long without feeling the desire to show everyone what I can do.

Seeing as though I lost my desire to do all those things so easily, perhaps I really didnt have a true passion for them. But I definitely did feel an incredible happiness and excitement at my acquisition of that knowledge, as well as very strong enthusiasm, to the point where I was quizzing my teachers on things and then wondering how come they didn't know the answer. Hm.

 

[Infntie]

The main reason I would do a subject is because I like it but not necessarily be 'passionate' about. Say Maths, I might be good at it (which I like) but it doesn't mean I have this "curiousity" (more like trying to avoid those deadly hard questions). So I would be completely opposite in this respect to your criteria :L In addition, I would 'research' outside "the HSC syllabus" because certain things aren't taught in enough detail. How can you learn something you don't understand completely? (Going on a tangent here: Say Planck's hypothesis (PHYSICS) for Black Body Radiation, students are expected to rote learn how Planck proposed that "radiation emitted and absorbed by the walls of a black body cavity is quantised," but are never really taught how that accounts for the shape of the curve. At least my Phys teacher was able to explain in contrast to the textbook)
In contrast, when I did Engineering studies, it was the best (had to drop it ). Basically, I actually learnt what I wanted to learn and had the opportunity to express my creativity by combining theory and practical experience which I think has greatly influenced my decision to go for Civ. Engineering (this might be relevant to OP).
As for success, it is always hardwork > intelligence. (I'm rather lazy :L)
Hope this may be of some use, despite being mostly irrelevant to the question (I really do like talking about myself =.=)

 

[Makematics]

K, maybe I'm just the weird one who gets bored and discouraged without approval of others haha. Ibibah perhaps it can be changed, and you have indeed got a very good understanding of what I wrote, which I wasn't expecting anyone to have, but it really is an integral part of my nature to compare myself to others, I can't just sit there and go ahead in something on my own for very long without feeling the desire to show everyone what I can do.

Seeing as though I lost my desire to do all those things so easily, perhaps I really didnt have a true passion for them. But I definitely did feel an incredible happiness and excitement at my acquisition of that knowledge, as well as very strong enthusiasm, to the point where I was quizzing my teachers on things and then wondering how come they didn't know the answer. Hm.

The reason you lost the desire to keep going is because the pleasure of beating others is just no match for the fulfilment you experience when you learn something you love, which is what seanieg discussed. This is why he still does maths all these years later and still enjoys it

 

[Kat92]

State-rankers, high achievers, and olympiads: How did you find school?

Your natural talent and passion for a subject converges into curiosity which you wish you satisfy. You begin to explore; your knowledge surpasses the HSC syllabus, dwelling into (low)-level university content. But you don't completely understand it and this crazily irritates you. Ordinary teachers can no longer satisfy what you want to know...

What did you do from here? Did teachers actually play a vital role in your success?

This may be a stupid question... but I am just interested in the lives of such people.

A lot of this is attributed to past cases in history of teachers actually dumbing their pedagogies down and organising students into professions based upon parents education; income; and one's level of engagement with the material to just name a few. This is just wrong as everyone has the ability to use meritocracy (as Infntie has mentioned) to become those high achievers and break the confines of the pedagogy of poverty. It really does worry me that the students who work in this manner to prove the system wrong do not get the support from some educators to encourage their learning/gifts; hence some of these students in turn often dumb themselves down.

It is certainly interesting as most other people in the cohort would often be content with the teaching ways and thus not challenge it. For those that do challenge the system it just goes to show what a little bit of hard work and belief in one's self can do.


*Much of it has to do with the Sociology and Role differentiation of Education- so if this is something you are interested in, there are numerous studies out there about these concepts.

 

[hayabusaboston]

The reason you lost the desire to keep going is because the pleasure of beating others is just no match for the fulfilment you experience when you learn something you love, which is what seanieg discussed. This is why he still does maths all these years later and still enjoys it

Then I have no idea whats up with me haha.

Perhaps I should just accept the fact that I really wasn't passionate enough to continue on my own.

 

[KoshX87]

Not a "super high" achiever or anything. And I'm not really gonna blame any marks I get for the HSC on others, but there are some teachers that don't teach well enough. I know there isn't any surplus of teachers, but some of the teachers I've had have had no excitement to teach. There are some I've had, who obviously love teaching and these teachers teach much better.

The people in your school can inhibit you. Those who bully others, never study and get angry at their bad results. There is no doubt that for most of us here, if the people in our cohort in our school were as smart as us, our ATARs would jump so high. Its sometimes depressing knowing people who can't answer simple questions after 2 years of physics. On the other hand I don't mind any one doing badly as long as they're actually trying to get smarter.

There is a point where you will eventually be smarter than a great majority of your teachers, whether it be during school or after, but I think the point is as long you're passionate, in something, you will not "need" your teachers, cause you'll be able to figure it out by your self. There are stages where you can get stuck, but you can probably figure it out alone by yourself. At least this is what doing SDD teaches you because after addressing so many bugs and having to fix them in your program, you have to always try to solve problems. You're brain is pretty much ready.

SDD, being something I've loved, it actually did get me mad that we weren't being taught how to make nice programs from day 1 of school. IT teachers sometimes have limited programming knowledge and they are usually restricted to the languages they learnt when they were young or just basic portions of code like from actionscript in flash.
Luckily for us, our SDD teacher was amazing. She taught us how to make games in Unity3D and we used that for our major work and our games were impressive. I think what you're feeling like is how I felt like until then. "Why do I have all this knowledge of programming, but I can't actually apply it to any thing practical or enjoyable?" That's what a nice teacher will do for you. E.g. if you enjoy chem, they would be like: Here do this titration. Everyone loves the titration, so the teacher adds twists and tries to explain more complex things. But then again this all depends on the size of your class and how smart they are, because it would be unfair to the less smart people if the teacher wasn't explaining things clearly.

My dad told me never to limit yourself in what you think you can achieve and to try things, and not be lazy about it. Ext 2 maths offered, so i try it despite people saying its difficult. Ext 1 english. I did this in year 11. I only got like 60% average for my assessments for that, but I still gave it a go. You have to spend every moment you can searching for something new to do. If you like maths, go buy a massive maths book from somewhere with new university things and work through it. Try out for maths competitions etc. Maybe join high society groups like Mensa or something else to surround yourself with smarter people. If you enjoy physics, go out and do pretty much the same for physics.

All that being said, lets say you were in year 6. You're finishing primary school and going to high school. If someone gave you all the maths textbooks until year 12, would you try to do them asap or would you wait? Its the same for now. If you really really enjoy something you have to go find it.

 

[LivesOffTheLand]

Aight Brahs let me lay down some knowledge on you peeps.

The number of people who have the intrinsic capability (genius) to be successful is very very small. I used to consider myself pretty smart (i still do), but upon reflection I've realised that my current ability is mostly (if not all) attributed to the amount of help and support I've received throughout my life. Tutoring for Maths and English since year 5, My mum forcing me to do a minimum of 1hr work per day since year 3, being part of an upper middle class family helps etc.

So I'll most probably achieve a high ATAR (estimate 95). But so fucking what?

As I've grown older I've realised that everyone i talk to is trying to lead me down a path in my life that i really don't want to go. Parents, teachers, family and siblings all pushed (and continue to push) me towards their goal which happens to be me achieving a high ATAR. Alright then brahs, we studied hard and got high marks, whats next? According to 99% of people my goals should be:

- Get into a good Uni, preferably to USYD or UNSW (for some bullshit prestige that no one ends up giving a fuck about)
- Become and office slave for some corporation (that makes millions off me and pays only a fraction of that as my wage)
- Buy a big house by taking out an 800,000 dollar loan (so i can become a bank monkey for 25 years of my life stressing out monthly on whether i can make the repayment)
- Get married and have some kids ASAP (to make sure i waste my youth)
- Die

And to 99% of people that's a life well lived. Fuck that.

As we start to enter the real word bro's don't ask yourself WHAT you wanna be, but instead WHO you wanna be. I talking about figuring out for yourselves what truly makes you HAPPY and doing whatever it takes to achieve that goal. And let me tell you now that for most of us that happiness is not going to be found at university.

Remember:
- Your education is still important ( but knowledge can come in many ways from many places)
- Making a living is still important ( a great saying is that: 'Having money is not everything, but not having it is' )
- Your family is still important

But don't let these things get in the way of your happiness. Make sure YOUR goals where made by YOU, not by the fucked up system most call life.

Here are a few quotes that have helped me:

" Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." - Calvin Coolidge

"The reason we struggle with insecurity is because we compare our behind-the-scenes with everyone else’s highlight reel." - Steve Furtick


“No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.”
- Socrates