Why is Law so popular? (2 Viewers)

[RivalryofTroll]

that was pretty immature of me, pardon me...

If you think it is going to be like suits, you're going to have a bad time... one of the main characters isn't even a law graduate...

It'll probably be more like this

(in all srsness, I think most people know Suits is an unrealistic representation of the legal profession but people still strive to become the next Harvey Specter~)

 

[enoilgam]

- Jobs in law are not secure. The market is very tight because there are so many graduates, conditions are poor, wages are low outside of the top tier firms. Starting a law degree with the expectation that you'll walk into a job that less than 5% of graduates will get is naive. Disregard anyone's opinion who isn't actually a lawyer, what would they know? If you know anyone who is in their 20's or 30's who is working in a law firm (even as a paralegal) ask them.

I wouldnt say conditions are poor, but it isnt a glamorous job I will say that. Like I said in another thread, having worked in HR in a top firm has seriously validated my decision to drop out of Law in uni. Certainly not something I'd like to do.

 

[neo o]

I wouldnt say conditions are poor, but it isnt a glamorous job I will say that. Like I said in another thread, having worked in HR in a top firm has seriously validated my decision to drop out of Law in uni. Certainly not something I'd like to do.

It depends on where you land, but the hours are certainly disproportionate to the rewards. There's alot of burn out.

 

[Omnipotence]

Law isn't that prestigious at all and as for the pay it's not that great. It's a highly competitive market out there - some people apply for 30 or more firms - culled at screening stage. You have to be a close to top student with an excellent CV (extra-curricular, relevant work experience & recommendations), cover letter and just plainly someone that can along with HR/partners. What I can positively say about a law degree is that it equips you with the requisite skills to pursue a broad spectrum of careers and from speaking to firms it is something that employers value. Also, with law you can find out more about yourself than you ever could before.

 

[enoilgam]

You have to be a close to top student with an excellent CV (extra-curricular, relevant work experience & recommendations), cover letter and just plainly someone that can along with HR/partners.

This is what's going to get you the job really, they look for a very specific type of person who can charm the pants off clients. In terms of getting passed screening, there is a much stronger emphasis on grades and law experience (the latter of which is very discriminatory I think). Also, Asian language speakers are highly favoured by many firms, since the Asia market seems to be a huge focus nowadays.

 

[Omnidragon]

Because people think lawyers make money, that it opens up career paths, and they are risk-averse. Little do they know. Oh well. They'll learn.

 

[MoeyNeeds90+]

"UNSW Law" is all i hear these days so stupidly annoying

 

[jane1820]

"UNSW Law" is all i hear these days so stupidly annoying

ppl that want to do straight up law or doctor for the money are npcs (which are most ppl)
like wdym there are so many interesting careers out there n u choose one that 'gets the most money'

idk if its just me but i hate ppl who are money and wealth orientated
there are ppl who are genuinely interested with these degrees and are passionate and i admire them unlike those money hunters

also those ppl that do degrees to seem smart 'i went to north sydney boys so i should do something with dentistry' umm no? only if you are passionate abt it

i dont wanna seem like a bitch towards ppl who do law or medicine, instead i admire them (as i said) i just hate HATE the ones who do them for money or they want to seem smart

 

[jane1820]

i understand that not everyone has money therefore a lot tend to look after it but idk it doesnt sit right with me that ppl deprive someone from something to get what they want (eg taking a spot in the medicine/law degree which could've been given to someone else)
but thats just me so yur

 

[MoeyNeeds90+]

ppl that want to do straight up law or doctor for the money are npcs (which are most ppl)
like wdym there are so many interesting careers out there n u choose one that 'gets the most money'

idk if its just me but i hate ppl who are money and wealth orientated
there are ppl who are genuinely interested with these degrees and are passionate and i admire them unlike those money hunters

also those ppl that do degrees to seem smart 'i went to north sydney boys so i should do something with dentistry' umm no? only if you are passionate abt it

i dont wanna seem like a bitch towards ppl who do law or medicine, instead i admire them (as i said) i just hate HATE the ones who do them for money or they want to seem smart

yeah for sure. literally as soon as i see one of those losers im like 'nah bud im outta here'. and the one's who flaunt their school r pathetic
if they wanna see what a waste their life ended up as their problem they just learnt the hard and immature way too

 

[MoeyNeeds90+]

i understand that not everyone has money therefore a lot tend to look after it but idk it doesnt sit right with me that ppl deprive someone from something to get what they want (eg taking a spot in the medicine/law degree which could've been given to someone else)
but thats just me so yur

honestly their not even 'smart' or what they think they are. its just effort that pays off nothing more than that. sure theirs some brain heads but thats not everyone there. they just have their money-loving head stuck in the clouds too much

 

[jane1820]

yeah for sure. literally as soon as i see one of those losers im like 'nah bud im outta here'. and the one's who flaunt their school r pathetic
if they wanna see what a waste their life ended up as their problem they just learnt the hard and immature way too

ik someone who did 4u math, chem, physics just to get a high atar (which they did: 99.8 class of 24) just to end up doing law, like hello?
what abt the ppl that had to work double your amount bc they did low scaling subjects bc they are actually interested in law

that doesnt sit right w me, i hate it

 

[MoeyNeeds90+]

ik someone who did 4u math, chem, physics just to get a high atar (which they did: 99.8 class of 24) just to end up doing law, like hello?
what abt the ppl that had to work double your amount bc they did low scaling subjects bc they are actually interested in law

that doesnt sit right w me, i hate it

yeah all i hear is "ur not doing math advanced how's that gonna get u into dent".or "4u eng does nothing later on" blah blah like thats not the only way you slag

 

[iloveeggs]

@MoeyNeeds90+ @jane1820

unfortunately ive met a lot of these sorts of people (via tutoring mainly) and i have a fam friend who is smart that has admitted they want to go into med just for the money. i agree that these ppl are obnoxious as hell and they also come from a lot more privilege and usually a lot of wealth. and i mean A LOT (im painting this picture bc most ppl that make it into fields like med are from high ranking schools and/or affluent backgrounds). also my observation is that a lot of these people are also asian as hell and that specific section of ppl are something i can comment on as i am also asian as hell.

you have to admit that there is also that factor of cultural pressure. when you make it into a high ranking school as an asian kid your ego has prob been getting stroked like extremely hard esp in like family friend circles or whatever. like if youre asian you would have that one fam friend that youre always compared to right, but imagine you ARE that family friend. i can understand why they get their sense of self and air of superiority from their academic achievements. its no excuse to look down on people but its prob bound to give you an identity crisis at some point when everyone around you becomes smarter than you esp if you get into med or smth like that.

and the environmental pressure and expectation that youre going into the "only acceptable asian careers" esp things like med, dental are pretty extreme. esp when raised in privilege and your parents are first gen immigrants its very easy for them to say "oh we came from nothing and you have everything, how come you can't achieve xyz". also you might have a school environments in highly competitive schools that talk abt their atar expectations that start from 99 onwards so again they are just being conditioned to think that way. its disgusting but it happens in a lot of selective schools and privates. the other day someone in my class was joking abt getting a 90 atar bc they did bad in an exam as if it was an insult and we are not even that toxic lol its just how some mindsets look like in schools with high average atars.

so a lot of ppl like this are so brainwashed from childhood that they dont think abt what they would enjoy or whatever bc they just like the idea of having a lot of money and getting into smth prestigious bc thats where their sense of self comes from. its a sign that they are really broken and have no clue who they are as a person or whatever and prob are so out of touch as well.

also just an unfortunate fact but anytime there is anything difficult ambition to work towards in life there will always be a privileged obnoxious person that has a shortcut to getting there so take it as motivation and move on. i can understand how frustrating it is bc i went through it too but over the past year it just clicked for me that these kinds of ppl in my life have no life outside of thir studies. its almost dystopian how npc they are

 

[gammahydroxybutyrate]

@MoeyNeeds90+ @jane1820

unfortunately ive met a lot of these sorts of people (via tutoring mainly) and i have a fam friend who is smart that has admitted they want to go into med just for the money. i agree that these ppl are obnoxious as hell and they also come from a lot more privilege and usually a lot of wealth. and i mean A LOT (im painting this picture bc most ppl that make it into fields like med are from high ranking schools and/or affluent backgrounds). also my observation is that a lot of these people are also asian as hell and that specific section of ppl are something i can comment on as i am also asian as hell.

you have to admit that there is also that factor of cultural pressure. when you make it into a high ranking school as an asian kid your ego has prob been getting stroked like extremely hard esp in like family friend circles or whatever. like if youre asian you would have that one fam friend that youre always compared to right, but imagine you ARE that family friend. i can understand why they get their sense of self and air of superiority from their academic achievements. its no excuse to look down on people but its prob bound to give you an identity crisis at some point when everyone around you becomes smarter than you esp if you get into med or smth like that.

and the environmental pressure and expectation that youre going into the "only acceptable asian careers" esp things like med, dental are pretty extreme. esp when raised in privilege and your parents are first gen immigrants its very easy for them to say "oh we came from nothing and you have everything, how come you can't achieve xyz". also you might have a school environments in highly competitive schools that talk abt their atar expectations that start from 99 onwards so again they are just being conditioned to think that way. its disgusting but it happens in a lot of selective schools and privates. the other day someone in my class was joking abt getting a 90 atar bc they did bad in an exam as if it was an insult and we are not even that toxic lol its just how some mindsets look like in schools with high average atars.

so a lot of ppl like this are so brainwashed from childhood that they dont think abt what they would enjoy or whatever bc they just like the idea of having a lot of money and getting into smth prestigious bc thats where their sense of self comes from. its a sign that they are really broken and have no clue who they are as a person or whatever and prob are so out of touch as well.

also just an unfortunate fact but anytime there is anything difficult ambition to work towards in life there will always be a privileged obnoxious person that has a shortcut to getting there so take it as motivation and move on. i can understand how frustrating it is bc i went through it too but over the past year it just clicked for me that these kinds of ppl in my life have no life outside of thir studies. its almost dystopian how npc they are

as discussed above and a decade ago, people vastly misunderstand the reality of working in the legal profession. the hours are long, the pay is disproportionately low for most juniors, and any ideas of 'justice' will be crushed out of you within 6 months. sure, it isn't great that people study degrees like law and medicine because of the perceived money or prestige, but the idea that "they're taking away spots from other people" is just asinine; if they made it in, they made it in, and no amount of aspiration or passion should waive academic and merit standards. scaling isn't an ideal system, but the reality is, the subjects are harder and low-scaling subjects in no way prevents you from getting a good atar if you perform at the level that would be required for their atar equivalents in higher scaling subjects.

the reason most universities don't offer undergraduate law as a single degree is because a LOT of people drop their law degree. people who study law at a university where the standards are quite high, will get a reality check quite fast - a lot of the time, some kind of interest or passion is required to offset the workload and stress, and people who don't actually want to be in that degree tend to burn out somewhere over the course of the 5 years. people particularly dropped like flies in 1st and 2nd year after going from >99.5 perfectionists to pass or credit averages. anecdotally, on several occasions, i had a group project ending with no group members because they all dropped their law degree.

its not like the class of people you mentioned won't enter the respective profession through running their heads into a brick wall over and over again, but both degrees tend to filter people out naturally who lack interest quite effectively. people who make their marks and achievements their identity will find their self-esteem rapidly crushed by the fact of the matter that just passing in these degrees is quite difficult in itself. even if this isn't the case, any professional environment they choose to enter after their degree will do the same. as said above, the most important factor in a career in law (and many other professions), provided you have a base level of competence, is how much people like you. people who act like the smartest in the room and with a numerically inflated ego from the hsc are not well liked, and will not last very long.

 

[totally_screwed]

ppl that want to do straight up law or doctor for the money are npcs (which are most ppl)
like wdym there are so many interesting careers out there n u choose one that 'gets the most money'

idk if its just me but i hate ppl who are money and wealth orientated
there are ppl who are genuinely interested with these degrees and are passionate and i admire them unlike those money hunters

also those ppl that do degrees to seem smart 'i went to north sydney boys so i should do something with dentistry' umm no? only if you are passionate abt it

i dont wanna seem like a bitch towards ppl who do law or medicine, instead i admire them (as i said) i just hate HATE the ones who do them for money or they want to seem smart

I respectfully disagree that most ppl do law or medicine for the money. there's truth in it for sure, like if there wasn't gonna be money at the end of years of hard work, sacrifice and training, I think less ppl would stick it out to the end

my brother is 2nd yr med and is rlly going through it this yr, he's not ashamed to admit he's partly in it for the money but if other deeper motivations weren't there e.g. genuine interest in med, making my parents proud etc. then ik a lazy ass like him wouldn't be enduring it. I also have friends who couldn't make it to undergrad med, so they're studying for GAMSAT (hard exam) and stressing day in and out about their GPA's bcz postgrad med is rlly hard to get into and their futures are uncertain. with the amount of money they're paying for GAMSAT's and years in uni I would imagine they expect med school to financially pay off in the end. but clearly they also just want to be doctors that badly

ppl are allowed to want to pursue a career for money imo it's not conceited, it starts to become an issue when a person's character is just bad e.g. huge ego's, insecure, selfish etc. there's ppl with bad characters in every degree, incl med and law, but I would think most ppl are actually humble and hard-working, even if money drives them to work hard. in my cohort anyway it seems like everyone's (primarily) there bcz they want to be, not bcz they'll get rich. there's easier degrees to get rich with

 

[jane1820]

@iloveeggs
I feel like as u said its more on the midset they grew up w

but honestly i think its mostly family values, my parents (not immigrants, australian citizens but were living outside of australia for 10+ yrs) came to australia from zero
They lost all their money (economic instability), had no house, no jobs only 3 children (n we were old: 11,10,6) and a degree

i will admit that them being citizens gave them an edge compared to immigrants but other than that i will say they faced the same hardships

my parents dont value money that much, they view money as right (not a privilege) that helps u grow
enough money is what u need
Now im two yrs away from graduating and my parents just want me to enter a degree that WILL guarantee me a job with money

i did grow up w a harsh academic environment (both my parents have a phd AFTER they moved to australia) i remember bawling my eyes out for a 16.5/20 on math, or a 9.5/10 on science for a stupid mistake

yes i was constantly compared to other children, yes i was told off if i didnt get good grades but no i wasnt raised to value money instead to value education

so to summarise: i believe those ppl (the ones we are discussing not the passionate ones) r doing those degrees bc they r wealth and money orientated since they were pressured from childhood

 

[jane1820]

Oh also my parents got jobs one yr after we moved n my dad w a high degree was working in a factory despite not being an immigrant (now hes a project manager for an organization and my mum works w ACER - they also both part time lecturers)

im not bragging abt their jobs btw im just saying that we had it as immigrants

 

[MoeyNeeds90+]

Oh also my parents got jobs one yr after we moved n my dad w a high degree was working in a factory despite not being an immigrant (now hes a project manager for an organization and my mum works w ACER - they also both part time lecturers)

im not bragging abt their jobs btw im just saying that we had it as immigrants

even if u were 'bragging' i dont see why you shouldn't considering what they went thru to get there. good on u and them