Aztec Destruction (2 Viewers)

[JoshJesse]

"Weather the Aztec Empire was heading for destruction even without spainish Conquests."

Thats my Prospect question. And im trying to research into how the Aztecs were destroyed (i.e was it entirely due to the Spainish or was climate change and/or a plague to blame)
Im having a lot of trouble finding relevent sources on the destruction of the Aztec Empire. Most of the Info out there centralises around the Maya. Does anyone have any idea's were i could find some good sources on the Aztec destruction.
Documentries would be good too.

Cheers
JJ

 

[xeuyrawp]

"Weather the Aztec Empire was heading for destruction even without spainish Conquests."

Thats my Prospect question. And im trying to research into how the Aztecs were destroyed (i.e was it entirely due to the Spainish or was climate change and/or a plague to blame)
Im having a lot of trouble finding relevent sources on the destruction of the Aztec Empire. Most of the Info out there centralises around the Maya. Does anyone have any idea's were i could find some good sources on the Aztec destruction.
Documentries would be good too.

Cheers
JJ

The Aztec Empire, despite being in civil war with neighbouring empires, was directly destroyed by 1. military conquest from Europeans, and (more importantly), 2. the diseases brought with them.

Plague wouldn't have destroyed them, as it wasn't native.

Read Crosby's The Columbian Exchange (get your paws on the 30th Edition, if you can -- it has an *excellent* bibliography), whch basically outlines how the Europeans destroyed the native Americans, not if. I'd also have a look at Jared Diamond's Collapse and Guns, Germs, and Steel; although they're a bit more 'popular', they have excellent recommended reading lists.

Personally, I don't think 'if' questions are any good -- how do you know that Young Prince Telochu, who was killed by pox brought by Europeans, would not have grown up and unified the big 3 (Maya, Inca, Aztec)? Alternatively, how do you know that Young Prince Telochu would not have torn apart the Aztecs?

You don't, hence hypotheticals being a bad idea.

I'd stick to 'what was the European contribution to the Aztec's downfall', nothing about 'if' -- contribution is a bit more different.

 

[JoshJesse]

Thanks mate I have already heard about the GUNS GERMS AND STEEL book. HOwever for this essay the has to be Historical debate, and from what you've told me im not sure that there will be to much debate around this question. unless there is a historian who thinks there was another reason to the Aztecs downfall. Maybe i could focus on

"weather it was the armed might of the europeans or the diseases which they brought that ultimately desroyed Aztec Empire."

whats your opinion.

Cheer JJ

p.s Thanks for the help

 

[Sissa]

Heya JoshJesse,

I don't know if this will help or not but in 1992, the UCLA anthropologist Robert Edgerton wrote a rather controversial book called Sick Societies in which (in part) he explores the fundamental practices of human sacrifice and cannibalism of Aztec royalty.

Edgerton also looks at the success in the Aztec Empire of the small elite through the use of religion and military power to defeat neighbouring societies, taking the spoils of conquest without sharing it with the general population. According to his work almost all the wealth taken in battle, including the flesh from the sacrificed victims went to the Aztec elite - the king, nobles, and priests. A society which is blatently against the egalitarian ideal. In many ways the societies of slavery didn't come close to the brutality of the world of the Aztecs.

In every society where there have been two distinct classes the society will crumble, for such a society is self-destructive. It is much like the words of Sam Gamgee in LOTR - It's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. It is not evil that must be fought but inequality, and in the end all see that equality, freedom, are worth fighting for.

It is in this way, that it would most likely have been that the Aztecs, whether the Spanish conquered or not, would eventually have disintegrated their own culture. They lived in constant fear: of Huitzilcopotl, or Quetzalcopotl, each to destroy them, with no decision resulting in their salvation. At the same timethis would have been highly demoralizing.

Well I don't know if any of that helped at all, but I really , really hope so - maybe we will post again, Love Sissa.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Heya JoshJesse,

I don't know if this will help or not but in 1992, the UCLA anthropologist Robert Edgerton wrote a rather controversial book called Sick Societies in which (in part) he explores the fundamental practices of human sacrifice and cannibalism of Aztec royalty.

Edgerton also looks at the success in the Aztec Empire of the small elite through the use of religion and military power to defeat neighbouring societies, taking the spoils of conquest without sharing it with the general population. According to his work almost all the wealth taken in battle, including the flesh from the sacrificed victims went to the Aztec elite - the king, nobles, and priests. A society which is blatently against the egalitarian ideal. In many ways the societies of slavery didn't come close to the brutality of the world of the Aztecs.

In every society where there have been two distinct classes the society will crumble, for such a society is self-destructive. It is much like the words of Sam Gamgee in LOTR - It's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. It is not evil that must be fought but inequality, and in the end all see that equality, freedom, are worth fighting for.

It is in this way, that it would most likely have been that the Aztecs, whether the Spanish conquered or not, would eventually have disintegrated their own culture. They lived in constant fear: of Huitzilcopotl, or Quetzalcopotl, each to destroy them, with no decision resulting in their salvation. At the same timethis would have been highly demoralizing.

Well I don't know if any of that helped at all, but I really , really hope so - maybe we will post again, Love Sissa.

I don't think Edgerton's thesis was at all an argument for societies' self-destruction, rather an almost culturally-elitist look at how western society is superior. His attempt to deconstruct metaethical cultural relativism really is a poor attempt at anthropological philosophy, especially when he tries to counter-claim the idea that modern/western governance use fear -- he totally dismisses modern notions of the media and such.

"weather it was the armed might of the europeans or the diseases which they brought that ultimately desroyed Aztec Empire."

Noone rational would claim it whether it was exclusively for x reason or y reason -- it, like most things, was a combination. For statistics, look at the books Crosby references; from memory, he cites an article that talks about statistics of plague/infection/viral mortality and such.

 

[JoshJesse]

Im having rediculous amounts of trouble finding historians for this topic. Does anyone out there have any email adresses, mailing adresses, books articles, anything that could give me infomation. even if you think it wouldnt be much help plz put it down.

Cheers JJ

 

[xeuyrawp]

Im having rediculous amounts of trouble finding historians for this topic. Does anyone out there have any email adresses, mailing adresses, books articles, anything that could give me infomation. even if you think it wouldnt be much help plz put it down.

Cheers JJ

Did you read my post? :S

 

[adrenaline rush]

Our HisExt class is doing something like this as our case study. If you would like to research into more of the conquest and the "Black Legend" some helpful resources are:
- Las Casas
- Bernal Diaz
- The Letters of Hernan Cortes
- "Broken Spears"
I can't remember the more modern sources off the top of my head, but i'll get them for you if needed. Just msg or something.

 

[xeuyrawp]

I can't remember the more modern sources off the top of my head, but i'll get them for you if needed. Just msg or something.

I gave him excellent modern sources that reference tonnes of material. He should actually bother picking up a book.

 

[fizzylizzy99]

Just in case you're interested, here's a list of books on the Aztecs and Incas (in ascending difficulty):
1. Dan O'Sullivan - The Age of Discovery 1400-1550
2. D Arnold - The Age of Discovery 1400 - 1600
3. H Innes - The Conquistadors
4. M Wood - Conquistadors
5. J Hemmings - The Conquest of the Incas

I found the first one particularly useful as it has not only O'Sullivans opinion, but also includes documents, many are primary accounts, including a few by Bernal Diaz.

Hope they help.

 

[ica(rus)]

have a look at these historians.
Trevelyan
Clendinnen