'Full Tape An Osama Woe Show' (1 Viewer)

[Rorix]

October 31, 2004 -- Osama bin Laden doesn't seem nearly so cocky in the unedited version of a videotape aired on al-Jazeera, complaining that the manhunt against him has hampered al Qaeda. AFP/Getty ImagesBin Laden the impotent / Opinion: Page 27 Osama bin Laden's newest tape may have thrust him to the forefront of the presidential election, but what was not seen was the cave-dwelling terror lord talking about the setbacks al Qaeda has faced in recent months.
Officials said that in the 18-minute long tape — of which only six minutes were aired on the al-Jazeera Arab television network in the Middle East on Friday — bin Laden bemoans the recent democratic elections in Afghanistan and the lack of violence involved with it.

On the tape, bin Laden also says his terror organization has been hurt by the U.S. military's unrelenting manhunt for him and his cohorts on the Afghan-Pakistani border.

A portion of the left-out footage includes a tirade aimed at President Bush and his father, former President George H.W. Bush, claiming the war in Iraq is purely over oil.

The tape also sparked some concern that an attack aimed at disrupting Tuesday's election may be planned.

But those who have seen the tape have said there was no specific information regarding an attack.

"We are taking this very seriously," said one counterterrorism official. "This is cause for great concern and we are certainly going on higher alert because of this."

The Terrorist Threat Integration Center, a joint FBI-CIA intelligence-gathering organization, has drawn up possible attack scenarios for officials to look out for — based on information gathered from communication intercepts and interviews with al Qaeda detainees.

The most extreme of those scenarios includes a multi-pronged biological- and chemical-weapons attack; more airline hijackings; assaults on financial institutions with the use of car and truck bombs and an attack similar to the Madrid subway bombing in march.

Many believe that the ringleader of any possible attack is Adnan Shukriagumah, a 28-year-old Saudi-born Guyanese man who grew up in South Florida.



A $5 million reward has been offered for Shukriagumah, who has bomb- making skills, is trained to fly commercial jets and has been linked to Sept. 11 ringleader, Mohamed Atta.

Intelligence reports say Shukriagumah has hooked up with the El Salvadorian street gang, MS-13, which is known to be very adept at smuggling drugs and people into the United States. With Post Wire Services

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/33063.htm

 

[Ziff]

I want to know who at Al-Jazeera made the edited version. The portions that I saw from the edited version were very... conciliatory. He wasn't so much attacking America but rather attacking its policies and it seemed as though someone at Al-Jazeera was trying to make him look like an Arab "statesman".

Essentially the edited version lacked the usual relgious allusions he litters his work with and threatened only those countries that support US policy.

I read on the BBC that some analysts who watched the edited version are worrying that maybe Al-Qaeda is trying to launch a 'political wing' much in the manner of the IRA and all those random Palestinian 'freedom fighter' organisations. Then again, maybe it's just someone at Al-Jazeera (or Al-Jazeera as a whole) trying to highten perception of Usama amongst the Arab world for political gain or more importantly - ratings.

 

[Rorix]

Yeah, in the edited version Osama seemed more like an Arab version of Micheal Moore

EDIT: ITT discuss tape, Osama's 'cease-fire' offer, influence on US election etc.

 

[thorrnydevil]

Yeah, in the edited version Osama seemed more like an Arab version of Micheal Moore

EDIT: ITT discuss tape, Osama's 'cease-fire' offer, influence on US election etc.

There is a site with most of these videos on it. However, it is extremely disturbing. If you would like the address, then PM me.

 

[ujuphleg]

just a conspiracy theory:

Don't you think its a little convienient that this tape turns up the week before US presidential elections? Perhaps Osama was blown to smithereens in Afghanistan and this is the fake bin Laden making tapes under US direction... is far-fetched but not impossible.

 

[Rorix]

ROLLING MY EYES AT YOU

don't you think 'OSAMA IS DEAD' would be a better 'October suprise' than an Osama video tape which reminds American voters that Bush has failed to capture/kill bin Laden?

 

[loquasagacious]

I've read but not seen the full version and even in that he appears much more concillaory, logical and reasoning. As passionate as we have seen him befor ebut not nearly as militant/crazy.

 

[Bone577]

I've read but not seen the full version and even in that he appears much more concillaory, logical and reasoning. As passionate as we have seen him befor ebut not nearly as militant/crazy.

Osama is far from crazy, and I would call him well spoken, eloquent, controlled. The fact that he is a murderer is another thing.

He has always been logical, and rational, it is just that most of the footage we would see of him in previous tapes were very edited and made him appear like a fanatic.



While everyone is speculating, alot of people talk of how Osama WANT'S Bush to win since Bush's attacks have enflamed the arab world and hence strengthening bin Laden. Continued attacks mean a continued rise in support for Osama.

 

[thorrnydevil]

Osama is far from crazy, and I would call him well spoken, eloquent, controlled. The fact that he is a murderer is another thing.

He has always been logical, and rational, it is just that most of the footage we would see of him in previous tapes were very edited and made him appear like a fanatic.



While everyone is speculating, alot of people talk of how Osama WANT'S Bush to win since Bush's attacks have enflamed the arab world and hence strengthening bin Laden. Continued attacks mean a continued rise in support for Osama.

Logical and rational?

HE ORDERED TWO PLANES FLY INTO A BUILDING.

 

[Bone577]

Logical and rational?

HE ORDERED TWO PLANES FLY INTO A BUILDING.

And he rationalised it. He said it was because of 1) Iraqi sanctions 2) Israel-US rejectionism of Palestine and 3) US military bases in Mecca and Medina.

This is what i would call a logical thought process. He isn't crazy as such, he just doesn't have a problem with killing innocent Americans.

 

[Rorix]

And he rationalised it. He said it was because of 1) Iraqi sanctions 2) Israel-US rejectionism of Palestine and 3) US military bases in Mecca and Medina.

No. That's his excuses. He's been at war with the US for a long time now.


PS: Stop being a terrorist apologist.

 

[thorrnydevil]

And he rationalised it. He said it was because of 1) Iraqi sanctions 2) Israel-US rejectionism of Palestine and 3) US military bases in Mecca and Medina.

This is what i would call a logical thought process. He isn't crazy as such, he just doesn't have a problem with killing innocent Americans.

True, however it doesn't make him logical or rational. It gives him a good reason to do it, but not a logical one.

 

[Bone577]

Look, point being, he isn't crazy. Murderer yes, terrorist, of course. But one thing i've noticed is people raving about how he is a madman who drinks blood and kills all non-muslims for no reason.

This is of course obviously a lie, he is very sane, very rational, very eloquent and very smart, and he attacks for a reason. And no they aren't excuses, remember he was a US ally until the establishment of US bases in Mecca and Medina, and the subsequent Iraqi sanctions.

I think it is obvious to anyone that he isn't just making up excuses because he is a sadist that simply enjoys killing, this to him is revenge, or a actual attempt at weakening the US.

 

[thorrnydevil]

Look, point being, he isn't crazy. Murderer yes, terrorist, of course. But one thing i've noticed is people raving about how he is a madman who drinks blood and kills all non-muslims for no reason.

This is of course obviously a lie, he is very sane, very rational, very eloquent and very smart, and he attacks for a reason. And no they aren't excuses, remember he was a US ally until the establishment of US bases in Mecca and Medina, and the subsequent Iraqi sanctions.

I think it is obvious to anyone that he isn't just making up excuses because he is a sadist that simply enjoys killing, this to him is revenge, or a actual attempt at weakening the US.

I agree that he is smart and has a reason to attack. However, this doesn't make him logical. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Bone577]

True, however it doesn't make him logical or rational. It gives him a good reason to do it, but not a logical one.

A good reason. Imagine if you will another person put in the same or similar situation to him, or even imagine yourself in the same circumstances. You may actually be upset and enraged by the death of 500,000 deaths under the age of 5 due to Iraqi sanctions or lets say the deaths of countless Palestinians or the fact that the two holiest cities in your faith have been defiled by foreign military bases.

It was wrong to attack the US, but it wasn't irrational, it had reason.



edit:agreed

 

[Rorix]

A good reason. Imagine if you will another person put in the same or similar situation to him, or even imagine yourself in the same circumstances. You may actually be upset and enraged by the death of 500,000 deaths under the age of 5 due to Iraqi sanctions or lets say the deaths of countless Palestinians or the fact that the two holiest cities in your faith have been defiled by foreign military bases.

It was wrong to attack the US, but it wasn't irrational, it had reason.



edit:agreed

yeah it was those sanctions that were responsible

i bet you also condone suicide bombings
'but those Israelis have big tanks, how can they fight back?!?!?!'

obviously killing civilians is the answer


im going to stop clicking the 'view post' option now, your posts are just too proterrorism

 

[loquasagacious]

At least Bone577 and even thornydevil are debating in a lucid measured and resonable tone, something severaly lacking in your own Rorix.

And as far as Israel/Palestine goes consider this who is more morally bankrupt? A helicopter pilot who fires missiles into a crowd (at no risk to themselves)at a moving car which may or may not contain the target OR a resistance fighter who detonates an explosive killing THEMSELVES and others.

 

[Bone577]

yeah it was those sanctions that were responsible

i bet you also condone suicide bombings
'but those Israelis have big tanks, how can they fight back?!?!?!'

obviously killing civilians is the answer


im going to stop clicking the 'view post' option now, your posts are just too proterrorism

Who was laying responsibility on the sanctions. I was merely saying that bin Laden is not irrational.




That is not to say that the sanctions were good, they simply amounted to genocide, absolutely regressive. We have covered the topic of sanctions before in previous threads, go read them.


As for Israel, I have covered it many times also, a suicide bombing has more justification than an Israeli incursion, also remember that the Israelis have killed MANY more, and ontop of that the Israeli military is not concerned with self-defence.

To illustrate this, the current wall being built runs through much Palestinian land, splitting much of it into ghettos. As such it is illegal and the ICJ has ruled against it. It has also drawn international condemnation.
The question is, why wasn't the wall built just inside the Israeli border rather than infringeing on mass amounts of Palestinian land? It would be cheaper to build (less area needed covering) work better at self-defence (Israeli troops patrolling both sides) and would be legal. If the Israeli government was concerned with self-defence the wall would be built withing Israeli land.



All you seem to do is throw around assumptions Rorix, i suppose it is alot easier to call me a "terrorist apologist" or "pro-terrorist" then to mount a serious argument with any real evidence and credibility while maintaining some shread of dignity.

 

[Rorix]

At least Bone577 and even thornydevil are debating in a lucid measured and resonable tone, something severaly lacking in your own Rorix.

OK. You'll notice that my tone is measured and reasonable with posters such as Moonlight who like, contribute, and all.

I'm considerably less measured with people who hate Jews to the extent that they wish for civilians to be killed by terrorists and think that Israel should just not exist.

And as far as Israel/Palestine goes consider this who is more morally bankrupt? A helicopter pilot who fires missiles into a crowd (at no risk to themselves)at a moving car which may or may not contain the target OR a resistance fighter who detonates an explosive killing THEMSELVES and others.

Let me break this situation down for you. It's very simple.

Israel wants to kill TERRORISTS and TERRORIST LEADERS.

Palestinian terrorists want to kill ISRAELI CIVILIANS.

If they fought the Israeli army, that's OK. But DELIBERATELY TARGETING CIVILIANS is strictly OFF LIMITS. No amount of subjective morality can undermine that.

Just because you kill yourself for a cause doesn't make it noble.

Maybe you should also go on my ignore list for that bullshit logic. I'll give you another chance, I guess.

 

[c_james]

Let me break this situation down for you. It's very simple.

Israel wants to kill TERRORISTS and TERRORIST LEADERS.

Palestinian terrorists want to kill ISRAELI CIVILIANS.

I could argue with that. An Israeli soldier killed a young Palestinian girl at a checkpoint and repeatedly shot her corpse at close range - that's a terrorist act if I've ever heard of one. Nothing's black and white dude.