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Israeli officer: I was right to shoot 13-year-old child (1 Viewer)

berry580

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Israeli officer: I was right to shoot 13-year-old child

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1358173,00.html

Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing

Chris McGreal in Jerusalem
Wednesday November 24, 2004
The Guardian

An Israeli army officer who repeatedly shot a 13-year-old Palestinian girl in Gaza dismissed a warning from another soldier that she was a child by saying he would have killed her even if she was three years old.

The officer, identified by the army only as Captain R, was charged this week with illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and other relatively minor infractions after emptying all 10 bullets from his gun's magazine into Iman al-Hams when she walked into a "security area" on the edge of Rafah refugee camp last month.

A tape recording of radio exchanges between soldiers involved in the incident, played on Israeli television, contradicts the army's account of the events and appears to show that the captain shot the girl in cold blood.

The official account claimed that Iman was shot as she walked towards an army post with her schoolbag because soldiers feared she was carrying a bomb.

But the tape recording of the radio conversation between soldiers at the scene reveals that, from the beginning, she was identified as a child and at no point was a bomb spoken about nor was she described as a threat. Iman was also at least 100 yards from any soldier.

Instead, the tape shows that the soldiers swiftly identified her as a "girl of about 10" who was "scared to death".

The tape also reveals that the soldiers said Iman was headed eastwards, away from the army post and back into the refugee camp, when she was shot.

At that point, Captain R took the unusual decision to leave the post in pursuit of the girl. He shot her dead and then "confirmed the kill" by emptying his magazine into her body.

The tape recording is of a three-way conversation between the army watchtower, the army post's operations room and the captain, who was a company commander.

The soldier in the watchtower radioed his colleagues after he saw Iman: "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward."

Operations room: "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"

Watchtower: "A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."

A few minutes later, Iman is shot in the leg from one of the army posts.

The watchtower: "I think that one of the positions took her out."

The company commander then moves in as Iman lies wounded and helpless.

Captain R: "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

Witnesses described how the captain shot Iman twice in the head, walked away, turned back and fired a stream of bullets into her body. Doctors at Rafah's hospital said she had been shot at least 17 times.

On the tape, the company commander then "clarifies" why he killed Iman: "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

The army's original account of the killing said that the soldiers only identified Iman as a child after she was first shot. But the tape shows that they were aware just how young the small, slight girl was before any shots were fired.

The case came to light after soldiers under the command of Captain R went to an Israeli newspaper to accuse the army of covering up the circumstances of the killing.

A subsequent investigation by the officer responsible for the Gaza strip, Major General Dan Harel, concluded that the captain had "not acted unethically".

However, the military police launched an investigation, which resulted in charges against the unit commander.

Iman's parents have accused the army of whitewashing the affair by filing minor charges against Captain R. They want him prosecuted for murder.

Record of a shooting

Watchtower
'It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward'
Operations room
'Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?'
Watchtower
'A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death'
Captain R (after killing the girl)
'Anything moving in the zone, even a three-year-old, needs to be killed'


Oh well, this is just an everyday Israelis excercise, why did I even bother?
 

loquasagacious

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I think palestinians are at least more justified in their hatred...
 

neo o

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Of course, the veritable horde of Palestinian suicide bombers whom indiscriminatly kill children, women and men are justified.
 

loquasagacious

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Look at it this way, who has more moral justification somebody who fires artillery and helicopter gunships into crowds/cities of people killing indiscriminatly or someone who believes so wholly in their cause that they are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice and blow themselves up.
 

gordo

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yes of course,

i suppose their justified in actually indoctrinating 10 yr olds to go and blow up men, women and children too...

u know, cause they are the scapegoats and the israelis are the scum evildooers here who stole away all their land and left and money may i add, and left them poor and with nothing.


ehem...who died recently again?
 

gordo

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addymac said:
Look at it this way, who has more moral justification somebody who fires artillery and helicopter gunships into crowds/cities of people killing indiscriminatly or someone who believes so wholly in their cause that they are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice and blow themselves up.

you're not supposed to take sides in a incalcuably complex war that neither you, nor I, nor many of the media, journalists and exhibitionists, could understand.


edit: lol, i jsut realised this came after my previous post. the preivious post was just to reitterate wat neo said :)
 

joujou_84

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suicide bombers kill ppl indiscriminatley and because they have probably seen their houses demolished infront of their eyes and their children killed by israeli soldiers (while the world watches and does nothing coz the US backs israel).....they do not kill for the sake of killing yet thery have gone mental with grief and use their bodies as a weapon........the israeli soldier however is the agressor.......the land stealer.......he knew exactly what he was doing when he walked up to a 10 yr old girl and shot her in the head.....she was wounded and he finished her off........its this sort of behaviour that just fuels the war and watch now the blood that wil be shed coz of this shooting.......the soldier will probably be responsible for many more israeli deaths......
 

soha

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ive seen an israeli palestinian documentary
and it was horrifying..so long ago
an israeli man picked up a baby and shot it in the head
i was like in tears..really disturbing to watch
but yeah
DId you know...??
that israeli soilders wear nappies..NO JOKE!!!...im not taking the piss...
they wear nappies coz they are shit scared sumtimes and obviously shit their pants..not all but some/probably most....
coz u know a few little rocks hitting their tanks can be frightening
 

joujou_84

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my friend is lebanese and i watched a video clip at her house for a song that was about he arab/israeli thing..........it went on for abt 20 mins and it had really disturbing pics........do u know wat im refering to soha.......
 

soha

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joujou_84 said:
my friend is lebanese and i watched a video clip at her house for a song that was about he arab/israeli thing..........it went on for abt 20 mins and it had really disturbing pics........do u know wat im refering to soha.......
yeah i seen it...if not the same one ive seen many...
heaps of pics..and stuff..its really bad..
coz they mostly children..its crazy
 

joujou_84

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soha said:
yeah i seen it...if not the same one ive seen many...
heaps of pics..and stuff..its really bad..
coz they mostly children..its crazy
yeh apparently its got singers from many different arab nations...........israel ordered that it be banned from being shown on TV....
 

ihavenothing

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Israel needs to know that they are the only country in the would that still supports apartheid. Anti-Zionist policies in the country are the most inhumane in the First World. Israel must stop the apartheid and Muslims must stop embracing anti-Semitic violence as many are not open minded enough to know that not all Jews support the state of Israel.
 

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"In 1936-9, the Palestinian Arabs attempted a nationalist revolt... David Ben-Gurion, eminently a realist, recognized its nature. In internal discussion, he noted that 'in our political argument abroad, we minimize Arab opposition to us,' but he urged, 'let us not ignore the truth among ourselves.' The truth was that 'politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country, while we are still outside'... The revolt was crushed by the British, with considerable brutality." Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."

Gandhi on the Palestine conflict - 1938

"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French...What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct...If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs... As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds." Mahatma Gandhi, quoted in "A Land of Two Peoples" ed. Mendes-Flohr.



Resolutions 3314 and 3013 in 1974 said that terrorism can not be labeled as such if it is conducted by a movement caliming to fight for self-determination or against a racist or colonial regime. It also stipulated that what Israel is doing is agression, which is the worst of all crimes, encompassing all the evils of other war crimes according to the Nuremberg trials. This provides justification on a legal level (and to a large part moral) of Palestinian violence.

Despite this, my opinion is inline with Gandhi.
 

Comrade nathan

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Despite this, my opinion is inline with Gandhi.
And that is non-violence?

I was looking for that quote you posted, i believe there are more quotes that David Ben-Gurion said one saying it was foolish to think the Palastinians would eve stop fighting. What is the name of that books?

Who was the person who create Zionism? or was it David Ben-Gurion im a bit confused im thinking there was some on pre 1900.

Also for people who dont know, if the Zionist win over Palastine then they will try to create a empire that streaches from the Suez canal to Turkey then as far as the Euphrates river
 

Bone577

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Comrade nathan said:
And that is non-violence?

I was looking for that quote you posted, i believe there are more quotes that David Ben-Gurion said one saying it was foolish to think the Palastinians would eve stop fighting. What is the name of that books?

Who was the person who create Zionism? or was it David Ben-Gurion im a bit confused im thinking there was some on pre 1900.

Also for people who dont know, if the Zionist win over Palastine then they will try to create a empire that streaches from the Suez canal to Turkey then as far as the Euphrates river
Ahh yes, THAT quote, Gurion was ever so truthful despite his treachery.

“Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs, We come from Israel, it’s true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we came here and stole their country. Why should they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion, quoted in “The Jewish Paradox” by Nathan Goldman, former president of the World Jewish Congress.

All these quotes were compiled by a group called, Jews for Justice, the text can be found here http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/origin_of_the_palestine-israel_conflict.htm make sure you click next at the bottomg for more.


Also you are right, Zionism pre-dates 1900, and alot of it was about having a bi-national state where everyone lived together peacefuly as equals. Gurion was not one of these, he was a former head of Israel and considered by many as the father of Israel.
 

Jordan.J

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gordo said:
you're not supposed to take sides in a incalcuably complex war that neither you, nor I, nor many of the media, journalists and exhibitionists, could understand.
yep, and the only way you'll see who the real aggressor is, is by visiting Tel Aviv and any town in the west bank on the same day and see the difference in the way they live
 
K

katie_tully

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That is absolutely horrid.
Anybody know the soldiers punishment? Is it death by firing squad? Do we get to pump 10 bullets into him?

Obviously isn't going to go down well with the Palestinians, I wonder what happens next.
 

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