School Punishment (1 Viewer)

[santaslayer]

What exact rights do teachers have in handing down punishments to students like picking up rubbish and after school (or even lunchtime) detentions?

Also, students are NOT obliged to pick up rubbish if they did not do anything wrong are they? eg. If the teacher saw a piece of rubbish on the ground next to you but you weren't the offender. Do you have to pick it up?


Yes, trivial, but interesting.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

What exact rights do teachers have in handing down punishments to students like picking up rubbish and after school (or even lunchtime) detentions?

Also, students are NOT obliged to pick up rubbish if they did not do anything wrong are they? eg. If the teacher saw a piece of rubbish on the ground next to you but you weren't the offender. Do you have to pick it up?

Yes, trivial, but interesting.

What I realised in my last couple years at school is that you can get away with most things by letting the teachers know that they have no control over you and you will do what you want regardless of what they tell you. It doesn't work in younger years, but teachers realise that an 18 year old is not going to do something if they don't want to.

 

[Rorix]

Are there any statutes re: public schools and punishment?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Good question, I'll check up on it

 

[Frigid]

:\ maybe this would help:

s35 Discipline in government schools, Education Act 1990 (NSW)

(1) The Minister may control and regulate student discipline in government schools.

(2) The Minister may prepare guidelines for the adoption by government schools of fair discipline codes that provide for the control and regulation of student discipline in those schools (except for the suspension or expulsion of students).

(2A) The guidelines and codes must not permit corporal punishment of students attending government schools.

(2B) The guidelines and codes may permit other reasonable forms of punishment or correction of those students, including requiring students to perform any reasonable work or service for the school.

(3) The Minister may, on the recommendation of the Director-General of School Education, expel a child of any age from a government school. The Director-General of School Education may suspend any child from a government school.

(4) The Minister may establish programs to assist any child who has a history of non-attendance at a government school or who has been expelled from a government school to adjust more successfully to school life or to improve his or her behaviour so as to be able to return to school.

(5) The Director-General of School Education may, with the consent of the child’s parent, arrange for a child who has been expelled from a government school to be admitted to and attend another government school (unless the child is refused admission under section 34 (4)) or to participate in a program referred to in subsection (4).

 

[santaslayer]

Hmmmm...

(2B) The guidelines and codes may permit other reasonable forms of punishment or correction of those students, including requiring students to perform any reasonable work or service for the school.

I guess picking up rubbish as a form of punishment is reasonable....

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Hmmmm...

(2B) The guidelines and codes may permit other reasonable forms of punishment or correction of those students, including requiring students to perform any reasonable work or service for the school.

I guess picking up rubbish as a form of punishment is reasonable....

But is it reasonable, santaslayer, IS IT??

 

[Frigid]

But is it reasonable, santaslayer, IS IT??

would a reasonable person in the circumstances find it reasonable for a student to pick up rubbish? isn't the picking up of rubbish degrading the student's dignity, crushing their self-esteem, so that they will never achieve and do law? would such be reasonable?

besides, there's no express breach clause, so we can do whateverthehell we like without getting punished.

 

[santaslayer]

hahaha...yes, arguable.



EDIT: Hmm...what about detentions..? Reasonable?...

In one way teachers have been handing them out ever since...forever.
On another, lunchtime detentions would be inappropriate as it is a break..?

 

[Frigid]

EDIT: Hmm...what about detentions..? Reasonable?...

ooooohhhh i can so slam this one... say something like lack of due process, illegal deprivation of liberty without fair judgment of one's peers... etcetc, magna carta, blahblah fifth amendment

 

[LaraB]

its up to the school...

its kinad like a contract in a way - the school has rules and by your parents enrolling you, they agree on your behalf that you will follow the rules...

a lot of schools do things they aren't alolwed to..

my mum's a teacher and she was saying that lately, her school at least, are more and more careful about whta they do/don't do cause of the threatof legal action of whatever..

eg - they cannot keep a student on detention, other than during lunchtime, without prior parental consent (this is p[rimary school but im pretty sure its the same for high school coz my bros got out of arvos in high school simply coz my parents refused to let him go)

they also aren't allowed to "confiscate" stuff indefinitely - they have to make it available to you at the end of the day, unless its something illegal

a lot of school sjust do it anyway..i guess coz i doubt many people would bother lodging a serious complaint...

 

[mystify]

Something to think about is also health risks associated with forcing children to pick up rubbish with bare hands or even come into direct contact with it at all. Its impossible to determine what sort of germs or bacteria are thriving on it. It may sound far-fetched but it is a reality (studying biology knocked alot of sense into me ) When i was at school i never saw cleaners walk around picking up rubbish without wearing disposable gloves...some even wore those face masks!In regards to detention, my brother was kept in for detention at lunch time just a few days ago and they deprived him of any sort of food....he literally fainted afterwards during class and the school nurse blamed his teacher.

 

[Frigid]

Something to think about is also health risks associated with forcing children to pick up rubbish with bare hands or even come into direct contact with it at all. Its impossible to determine what sort of germs or bacteria are thriving on it. It may sound far-fetched but it is a reality (studying biology knocked alot of sense into me ) When i was at school i never saw cleaners walk around picking up rubbish without wearing disposable gloves...some even wore those face masks!

In regards to detention, my brother was kept in for detention at lunch time just a few days ago and they deprived him of any sort of food....he literally fainted afterwards during class and the school nurse blamed his teacher.

ohhhhhhh, look, two torts!!!

looks like you got some suing to do

 

[gordo]

this is why i hate law

 

[Frigid]

this is why i hate law

ambulance-chasing lawyers or the fact that law ominously pervades everything?

 

[gordo]

the fact that in reality a boy might actually sue for having to pick up rubbish and some lawyer will go and argue the case for him

law's a wonderful thing, but its so petty at times.
make a quick buck, or get some ego boost out of spending tax payers money and proving to someone else that you were right and they were wrong

 

[Frigid]

the fact that in reality a boy might actually sue for having to pick up rubbish and some lawyer will go and argue the case for him

law's a wonderful thing, but its so petty at times.
make a quick buck, or get some ego boost out of spending tax payers money and proving to someone else that you were right and they were wrong

but gordo, it's the WHOLE PRINCIPLE of the matter! sometimes ppl sue not only because they have suffered damage/injury, but also because they feel that they have somehow been wronged (the whole moral correctness, which you feel is a petty excuse). allow me to elaborate:

if the rubbish is dirty, then obviously it's harmful to the boy to pick it up. if he gets sick and is able to prove a tort or other cause of action, then he is well-entitled to claim damages if the claim is not vexatious. let's take an extreme but not implausible example: what if the boy picked up building materials that contained asbestos? what then?

also, our law has always strongly held that deprivation of liberty should only be used as a last resort, and only after a fair trial by one's peers, proved beyond reasonable doubt. The types of detention that exist in the classroom or at a detention centre or Guantanamo Bay, have always been summary and without trial; this to me is fundamentally wrong, if we are to listen to the illustrious history of common law.

the extent to which the principles of law apply should not regard to the gravity of the offence, but, notwithstanding circumstances which call for special attention, should be applied equally in all cases, as expedient as circumstances permit.

 

[santaslayer]

its up to the school...

its kinad like a contract in a way - the school has rules and by your parents enrolling you, they agree on your behalf that you will follow the rules...

a lot of schools do things they aren't alolwed to..

my mum's a teacher and she was saying that lately, her school at least, are more and more careful about whta they do/don't do cause of the threatof legal action of whatever..

eg - they cannot keep a student on detention, other than during lunchtime, without prior parental consent (this is p[rimary school but im pretty sure its the same for high school coz my bros got out of arvos in high school simply coz my parents refused to let him go)

they also aren't allowed to "confiscate" stuff indefinitely - they have to make it available to you at the end of the day, unless its something illegal

a lot of school sjust do it anyway..i guess coz i doubt many people would bother lodging a serious complaint...

haha interesting stuff lara.

eg - they cannot keep a student on detention, other than during lunchtime, without prior parental consent

I've heard that before in Primary.
A parent got all fussy because their child didn't arrive home at the agreed time and after that incident, EVERYONE was educated on the requirement of parental acknowledgement and consent before the student was put on detention after school.

It was pretty big news for at least 2 months.

EDIT: I went to St Vincent's Ashfield.

 

[LaraB]

Something to think about is also health risks associated with forcing children to pick up rubbish with bare hands or even come into direct contact with it at all. Its impossible to determine what sort of germs or bacteria are thriving on it. It may sound far-fetched but it is a reality (studying biology knocked alot of sense into me ) When i was at school i never saw cleaners walk around picking up rubbish without wearing disposable gloves...some even wore those face masks!In regards to detention, my brother was kept in for detention at lunch time just a few days ago and they deprived him of any sort of food....he literally fainted afterwards during class and the school nurse blamed his teacher.

he fainted? geez....thats a bit nuts..they shoulda at least let him go get a drink or somethin

 

[rific]

The way I understand it, most schools now don't detain students for an entire lunch break, holding them in for the first half so the students still have time to eat and stretch out etc. I'm pretty sure it's against most schools' policy to do otherwise, or else, as others have said, there can be adverse reactions. Same thing with picking up rubbish, if it's a specific punishment, like for a period during lunch or something, a lot of schools now provide disposable gloves, as part of hygiene policy, if it's just a 'one-off' thing, I guess the teachers just get by with telling them to wash their hands...