The Aus article in reply to SMH article on paper two (2 Viewers)

[marydh]

Title: STICKING TO THE BOOK
Source: Australian, The; 22/10/2005

Books are better for student study than digital detritus

YESTERDAY The Sydney Morning Herald quoted HSC students denouncing
critics of Year 12 English courses -- we think they meant us. Apparently
because ``the media lies'' it is important for young people
to know what the reptiles of the press are up to, the students
said. Presumably by studying episodes of the D-Generation's Frontline
TV series, which is on the NSW syllabus. Or the book jacket
that students in that state can study. Not the book, just the cover
and publisher's blurb. Or any of the modern movies that are
on course lists around the country. Or blogs and other digital
resources, including the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission
website -- which is also set for study in NSW, even though
the organisation no longer exists.

Using literature to learn how to critically analyse what authors are
up to should be a core component of any English course. But the
world is not short of good books suited for the task. Books --
not blogs, not digital ephemera, but books, the artefacts that really
inquisitive students will find behind the paperback cover set
for study. Reading a whole book takes time and discipline, and
it is about the best way imaginable to learn how to analyse authorial
intent and interpret their arguments.

But all that examining the ATSIC site will do is expose students to
propaganda from an organisation that in the end represented only
itself. There are all sorts of objective sources that set out the
condition of indigenous Australians that could be provided to
support any of the many books by Aboriginal authors about the poison
of racial prejudice. The study of ATSIC is irrelevant. And The
Australian believes that studying the D-Generation for advanced
English courses betrays the educational interests of students and
will appal parents who want kids to develop a love of literature.
And if students are really interested in analysing the motives
of powerful organisations, here is a question to critically consider:
``The study of senior school English is shaped by a contempt
for the Western canon and a belief held by education theorists
that all texts are equal. Discuss.''

Copyright 2005 / The Weekend Australian.

this article makes so many valid points...it should be turned into a website and studied for 'telling the truth'. but we'd only be examining the visual aspects, of course!

 

[holla back girl]

Reading a whole book takes time and discipline, and
it is about the best way imaginable to learn how to analyse authorial
intent and interpret their arguments.
QUOTE]

yep...have you seen some of the critical study texts that some schools are doing?
i recently came across wild swans at the local library and the book was thick!

the astc site is not the equivalent of a 600 page novel

 

[SmileyCam]

What a load of bullcrap!! The media is just sore that half of us don't like them anymore because we studied frontline. Personally, I can't stand ACA or any overtly subjective media like that anymore, and forget the newspapers. How many people REALLY use blogs and publisher blurbs as other related texts? I used a website, a movie and an animation. The worst type of text I can think of is political comics, but the newspapers are about to complain about those are they?

But the world is not short of good books suited for the task. Books --
not blogs, not digital ephemera, but books, the artefacts that really
inquisitive students will find behind the paperback cover set
for study. Reading a whole book takes time and discipline, and
it is about the best way imaginable to learn how to analyse authorial
intent and interpret their arguments.

We all have to study a book, I studied Emma by Jane Austen. Although, it was so boring that I never read it, I think I got upto chapter 7 (of about 58). Some students are just not interested in reading novels, and in today's contemporary society, these values need to be appreciated and adjustment to our education systems are required.

Or the book jacket
that students in that state can study. Not the book, just the cover
and publisher's blurb. Or any of the modern movies that are
on course lists around the country.

So in this reporter's opinion, artist and directors aren't worthy of our time, of our education system. Only the specific niche of novel authors are viable composers in society.
It's articles like this that only reinforce the ideas presented through the study of texts such as Frontline and will continue to keep my hatred towards biased media like this flaming.

 

[skyrockets1530]

this article makes so many valid points...it should be turned into a website and studied for 'telling the truth'. but we'd only be examining the visual aspects, of course!

I agree, I was very surprised that students are allowed to study such things as book covers and websites in english- the mere fact that the specified text type in an exam could be a website. English is about literature- the syllabus includes lots of excellent books and films (the script is, in itself a form of literature) which are wonderful to study.

 

[RyddeckerSMP]

I think the book cover they are referring to would be the one in the stimulus booklet, really. But as usual The Australian is full of right-wing 'we are the best, who cares about what anyone else says' propogands.

 

[marydh]

are you hearing yourself?

We all have to study a book, I studied Emma by Jane Austen. Although, it was so boring that I never read it, I think I got upto chapter 7 (of about 58).

This begs the question, why the hell are you studying ADVANCED english?

if they did nationalise the hsc, it would be good if we got western australia's english set up. they have something called english - which is all the (outdated) trendy crap we have no choice but to study now, but then they have a subject called english literature. yes, literature. not english websites. not english movies. english literature.

i don't particularly mind doing this superficial study of film and visual texts as we do, but i think it should stop in year 10 and then those who are actually interested in continuing english at university (you'd have some trouble there smileycam, i hear they study BOOKS, of all things) could actually read more than one novel.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

By the look of RyddeckerSMP and marydh's command of the english language I would say our current system is failing us.

While I do think looking at texts (other than merely books) is useful, I think it is a bit of a novelty in contemporary circles... that the hsc takes too far.

 

[phemale_souljah]

it would be good if we got western australia's english set up. they have something called english - which is all the (outdated) trendy crap we have no choice but to study now, but then they have a subject called english literature. yes, literature. not english websites. not english movies. english literature.
.

I would TOTALLY love that! I'm aiming to study lit in uni...and studying a bookcover didn't exactly put me in an advantageous position.

 

[RyddeckerSMP]

By the look of RyddeckerSMP and marydh's command of the english language I would say our current system is failing us.

While I do think looking at texts (other than merely books) is useful, I think it is a bit of a novelty in contemporary circles... that the hsc takes too far.

Oh yes, becuase at 10 to 8 in the morning i really pay attention to having complete grammer and spelling correct, especially when typing. I somehow doubt that having my advanced and extension essays full of spelling mistakes will allow me to get the marks that i do.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I somehow doubt that having my advanced and extension essays full of spelling mistakes will allow me to get the marks that i do.

Your argument...

"I am a good speller"

I get good marks - Therefore -
I am a good speller.

 

[RyddeckerSMP]

Now my argument was that if i didn't spell anything right, regardless of the fact i wrote a good essay means i wouldn't get the marks i would otherwise recieve. It is a component.

 

[fleepbasding]

Your argument...

"I am a good speller"

I get good marks - Therefore -
I am a good speller.

your qualms about spelling and gramatical errors don't really have anything to do with this topic. Can you please get over it because nobody (the majority) cares about your obsession.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

your qualms about spelling and gramatical errors don't really have anything to do with this topic. Can you please get over it because nobody (the majority) cares about your obsession.

Yes it does.
Basic spelling and grammar errors in the writings of people with 13 years of education under their belt is rediculous. Also, what the majority believes doesn't really matter, just because your opinion has the backing of more people does not give it any more credit.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Yes it does.
Basic spelling and grammar errors in the writings of people with 13 years of education under their belt is rediculous. Also, what the majority believes doesn't really matter, just because your opinion has the backing of more people does not give it any more credit.

*ridiculous.

 

[switchblade87]

*ridiculous.

Damn, beaten to it!

 

[Not-That-Bright]

What does it matter if I make spelling/grammar errors? I was taught under the same system, my failures are simply further examples of how we haven't been taught properly.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

What does it matter if I make spelling/grammar errors? I was taught under the same system, my failures are simply further examples of how we haven't been taught properly.

Pointing out people's spelling mistakes on the internet is silly. It was just ironic given the content of your post.

 

[fleepbasding]

and it's not relevant to the discussion, which is essentially the study of different text-types in advanced english.

 

[nwatts]

This begs the question, why the hell are you studying ADVANCED english?

if they did nationalise the hsc, it would be good if we got western australia's english set up. they have something called english - which is all the (outdated) trendy crap we have no choice but to study now, but then they have a subject called english literature. yes, literature. not english websites. not english movies. english literature.

i don't particularly mind doing this superficial study of film and visual texts as we do, but i think it should stop in year 10 and then those who are actually interested in continuing english at university (you'd have some trouble there smileycam, i hear they study BOOKS, of all things) could actually read more than one novel.

Ah, if your teacher so wanted, you could have studied 'literature' (which I assume you think is the canon?) in English. There's room to pick from, hence all the electives. The "no choice" you speak of is non existant. You could completely avoid doing films and visual texts. It's your problem, not BOS's.

Also, I don't know what school you go to, but what the hell kind of elitist idiot are you? The study of film is equally as valuble as the study of 'BOOKS', and to consider that films can only be studied superficially is just ridiculous.

And as a side note: I do Advanced/Extension 1 English, plan on doing creative writing/english literature at University and I loathe Jane Austen and her bloated, pretentious novels. She's an offense to western literature, and has done more harm than good to the literary world.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

and it's not relevant to the discussion, which is essentially the study of different text-types in advanced english.

No it is relevent to the discussion which is in response to the other discussion which was discussing whether our current english syllabus is the best way to teach us.