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Why Medicine? (1 Viewer)

1000words

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Hi everyone,

For those of you who do not know me, my name is David and I've recently graduated from a science/law degree. My science degree had an emphasis on the biomedical sciences.

Firstly, congratulations to those students who have finished year 12! If you're reading in this forum, I assume that you're interested in pursuing a career in medicine. That's great!

Why are you interested in medicine?

I write this thread in a similar fashion as I have asked my tutoring students, other students at university and high school, all of who were interested in undertaking a course in medicine.

If it's for prestige or money, that's a fair enough reason for me - a little unfortunate from my perspective (as a potential patient!) but everyone's entitled to their reasons. This is not what I tend to discuss as this opens a whole but very different kettle of fish.

My concern is more towards those who enter into medicine under a misunderstanding - this might lead to a big 'oops'. This isn't your fault but more due to misconceptions held by the general public.

Those who would like to 'help people' - that's great! Now, I challenge you to ask yourself (but don't feel obliged to post a response here): 'how? and why?'

If you would like to help others by treating patients directly, medicine is perfect for you. Medicine in the undergraduate years is very clinical - you will LOVE it!

If your primary reason for wanting to enter medicine is to 'find a cure', I challenge you to have a re-think. Like I have mentioned, medicine is very clinically based, whereas a science degree (in the biomedical sciences) is very research based. When you hear about 'breakthroughs' in such and such, they are research scientists. These research scientists usually have a background in science. There are MANY physicians who are also involved in medical research although they undertake a medical science degree or pursue postgraduate studies to obtain a PhD.

My point is that you can end up in medical research either way, but medicine can be seen as the very long and incorrect way if what you wanted to be in the first place was in medical research. It is not all a lost, however, as you will be a medical researcher with a very strong clinical background AND you can also practice in medicine to fund your studies and research i.e. the PhD candidates I have known who are doctors also practice part-time to further fund their studies and the PhD doctors I know also have their own practice. PhD students with a medical background are usually paid more throughout their scholarship (due to prestige and to attract the best physicians).

It's never really an issue when students who have relatives or know people who are medical doctors. Others, however, are a little misdirected due to misconceptions. These can lead to very unsatisfied students who drop out of medicine and enter into medical science - this stage is not necessarily unfortunate, but more that it has taken away a few years to get there instead of 'getting it right' from the start. This applies to any student who enrols in a course for the wrong reasons due to misunderstandings.

Slightly out of topic (but relevant to those who might miss out on medicine but wish to transfer at university), I have met dozens and dozens of students in science who had aspirations to transfer into medicine because they missed out on medicine in year 12. However, all the students who had high enough grades to transfer and chose not to do so have said to me it was because they discovered that biomedical science was what they had looked for. Hence, missing out turned out to be a major blessing.

Sure, medicine sounds more prestigious than the sciences - I can understand that from a year 12 student's point of view - but I assure that it fades if the decision is made for the wrong and disappointing reasons. With any discipline, pursuing a course that you find the most interesting will ensure a rewarding and life-time career.

To close, I want to make it clear that I do not intend to discourage people from entering medicine. In contrast, I would like to encourage people to enter into medicine for the right reasons for their own benefit. I welcome anybody to agree or disagree - getting input more input here for the benefit of everyone. The reason I have taken this time to write is in the hope of helping people (or at least one person) from making a decision they might regret and what I write might save you a few but valuable years.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
David
 

lukebennett

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i want to do medicine cause i could see myself enjoying this career for longer than any other career. id find it highly stimulating and id love to be able to work with sick people or sports people and help them perform their best (i like sports med). you can help people in many areas but an area im interested in like med would be ideal as i love to learn about the human body etc and how it works. i find it absolutely fascinating. that said research is my fall back but medicine is more appealling to me cause id love to apply my knowledge directly to people and be more practical than theoretical. i love contact with people

but yeah i have thought about my reasons for some time and it did a miracle in getting me to actually do some school work so i know i have a legitimate yearn to do medicine and its not prmarily for other people its for me. money is also not my primary reason either but it would be nice
 

1000words

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lukebennett said:
You can help people in many areas but an area im interested in like med would be ideal as i love to learn about the human body etc and how it works. i find it absolutely fascinating. that said research is my fall back but medicine is more appealling to me cause id love to apply my knowledge directly to people and be more practical than theoretical. i love contact with people
Hi there Luke! Congratulations on your year 12 results! From what you've written, I think medicine would be perfect for you. If you settle for medical science (as in your signature), you won't be disappointed in learning about the human body. You will love it and will know it in detail (although there is less emphasis on the clinical/diagnosis side of things). However, the key difference is contact with patients: in medical research, you are not dealing so much with patients directly. You are working on the human body primarily. If working with patients would help you gain satisfaction in your career, I would try to get into medicine at some stage.

lukebennett said:
Money is also not my primary reason either but it would be nice
That's a whole entire topic probably :) I am glad that money is not your primary reason because if it was, there are many other disciplines which would provide significantly more income (ie. industries revolving around money). That said, the doctors I know of have mentioned to me that they are living comfortably and never have to worry about money - however, they are specialists.
 

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1000words said:
That's a whole entire topic probably :) I am glad that money is not your primary reason because if it was, there are many other disciplines which would provide significantly more income (ie. industries revolving around money). That said, the doctors I know of have mentioned to me that they are living comfortably and never have to worry about money - however, they are specialists.
well the way i see it is why would you have a career for like 30-40 just cause it earns you money. in med you may not have alot of time to enjoy your money till you retire, or unless youre a good investor and then dont need to work much. way better to do something youd enjoy. areas like sports med at this stage dont earn heaps but ill just manage my money well and then can live comfortably :D
 

+Po1ntDeXt3r+

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in defense of the interview
its not so much "keep asian students out" idea..
if thats the case its not working super well.. lots of kids at med schools are asians..


but then if u mean keep out "non-social super-conservative selfish ultra-bookworms" then well yes its working.
ure call i personally think that it finds more suitable candidates .. cos lik a yr 12 score like the UAI is hardly a sole indicator of performance at uni..
 

adrenaline88

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Hey everyone,
My name's Ray and I'm in year 12 this year. I'm very keen on studying Medicine and I found this thread very interesting (good on you 1000words for starting it!)

Personally I am extremely happy Australian medical schools have started to accept people based on factors such as UMAT and interview. The reason being that the UAI is not a clear indication that someone is genuine in their aspirations to study medicine. The UAI also doesn't guarantee a student will be successful in their medical studies.

I'm very pleased that interviews exist as admission requirements for medical school. It gives genuine students the chance to discuss their goals and show admission officers that they are perfect for a position in medical school.

I want to study medicine for several reasons:

a) medicine not only accommodates my passion for sciences and the human body (disease, drugs, etc), but it also accommodates my desire to work with people and apply everything I've learnt to solve problems.

b) medicine is a very demanding and stimulating profession. It is one of the few "lifestyle careers" where it plays a large role in your day-to-day life. I’m a very curious person and I function best when I’m constantly being pushed to concentrate.

c) a medical degree opens doors to graduates who wish to travel and work overseas.

d) in what other job can you go into work and spend the day discussing peoples' problems and working towards them getting better, whilst applying years of knowledge and skills on a daily basis.
Lot more things to say, but i'll leave it there.

I think medicine is different to nursing in that a doctor has much more theoretical knowledge about disease and is intent on getting people out of hospital ASAP, whereas a nurse is responsible for the comfort and progress of a patient, ensuring their stay in hospital is as comfortable as possible. I'm not saying doctors are better than nurses here, I WOULDN'T MAKE A GOOD DOCTOR IF I WAS TO SAY THIS! I did work experience in nursing and found that it wasn't the right career for me because it wasn't stimulating enough; I couldn't hear about a patient's problem, discuss how it's manifested, how the patient is progressing and being treated. Basically I'm saying I want a career where I'll constantly have to study and learn new things and brush up on old skills.

So yes, that's my gas-bag for the day. I'm sure some things don't make sense because I wrote all this in a rush.

Cheers
Ray
 
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lukebennett

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adrenaline88 said:
Personally I am extremely happy Australian medical schools have started to accept people based on factors such as UMAT and interview. The reason being that the UAI is not a clear indication that someone is genuine in their aspirations to study medicine. The UAI also doesn't guarantee a student will be successful in their medical studies.
i get what you are saying but UMAT and interviews are not that effective for finding good doctors. just like the UAI it makes fat generalisations about people. how can you posibly tell that someone would make a good doctor in a 45 min interview. it does however get rid of the people who obviously would make bad doctors however but alot of people whod make great doctors dont get in while people who are good at interviews and UMAT who wopuldnt make good doctors but are good at bullshitting get in.

i personally think the graduate rout is better cause people have to complete a degree before doing the course. there arent these majorly enthusiastic school leavers who dont know what uni is like. it can also cut down on the number of applicants to grad courses. it is an effective way of cutting back on people who wont be as committed. there is also an interview process and the GAMSAT which is much more knowledge based but does have problem solving and writing skills in it.

IMO i think this is better.

good luck. work hard and keep focused and im sure youll get there (thats if you are smart too hehehhehehe)
 

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bearpooh said:
I know a number of doctors very well. Most would change careers if they could.

There is very little prestige left in it.

The money sucks.

The red tape is mind boggling and you endup doing stuff
because the "govt says so"

It is no accident that Laurie (UAI 100 ) who has 2 doctors as parents
is not doing medicine. (Hi Laurie ! )

Medical research in Oz is so backward that it is not funny. The brighter ones
head off to the US . Someone I knew very well is now Prof of Oncology in Cambridge.

However having a medical degree does make it a lot easier to get funding for research.

Additionally. entry into medicine is non-transparent and non-UAI in an effort to keep out the Asian students who do well.

A medical examiner ( ie: he takes med students for vivas ) attached to
sydney uni told me a few years ago that there are too many "Ngs and Ngo's"
getting into medicine.

The interview based entry is one way of fixing this "problem"
if people avoided medicine like the bubonic plague thered be no doctors. someone has to take the job of doctor
 

adrenaline88

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I agree with you that UMAT and interviews aren't very good indicators of who'd be a good doctor and who wouldn't, however they are much better than relying solely on academic performance in year 12 (UAI). Don't get me wrong, I agree that a 45 min interview isn't enough to find perfect future medical students, but it's the best tool Undergraduate Medical Schools have at the moment.

I agree with you that the graduate route has the potential to separate the genuine medical hopefuls from the over-enthusiastic people with unrealistic expectations of the profession. The graduate route has more mature students, i.e those that really want to do medicine. However we have to think about the year 12 students who DO have realistic expectations of Medicine and have their hearts set on medicine (eg me :D hehe). I personally could not imagine going through another 3 years after my HSC constantly worrying about whether or not my marks will be sufficient for entry into Medicine ... I'd GO INSANE! But I guess I'm not your average naive year 12 student who wants to do Medicine because it pays well (which is silly, there are many other jobs which pay much more but have a lot less responsibilty and impact on the lives of patients), and they're not crushed if they don't get in.
 

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bit if you dont get in (something very important to think about) what wud you do? keep trying each year? do a sciencish degree and do medical research (one of my fall backs)?
 

adrenaline88

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I'll be applying to every medical school in Australia (and new zealand) this year. If I don't get in anywhere *knock on wood*, I'll start studying Medical Science and keep trying to get into Medicine every year of that course. If I'm unsuccessful, I'll do GAMSAT in my 2nd or final yr and try getting into Grad Med.
 

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no but if you dont get in ever. what wud you do? (i know its not something youd want to think about but you shud. you never know cos umat and gamsat are evil. if you stuff umat you are stuffed for every uni. i had a slightly off day and stuffed most sections even though i cud have done wayyyyyyyy better. alot of high 99 people dont get in. even at unimelb whixh lets high uai people in with bad umat)
 

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That's a difficult question. Worst scenario- I do full-fee paying Medicine here or overseas.

If I don't get into Medicine at all I don't think I could do research. I don't see myself spending my working-life in a lab. I also don't think I'd be able to do something med-related, because for me it would be a very difficult life being so close to doctors yet knowing I could never be one.

I think, in an extremely-pissed off state which would follow me not getting into med ever, I'd abandon my altruism and do something solely for the money! Hehe jks, but seriousley if I don't ever get into medicine, life would be a bitch.
 

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id do medical research or design health/sports performance supplements or something like that. herbal supplements have always been an interest as well as sports medicine.

but yeah hopefully ill do well enough in gamsat and get into med at usyd. post grad id like either sports med, opthalmology, dermatology or even orthopedics or plastic surgery
 

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lukebennett, did you give the UMAT this time around? If so, what was your score?
 

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Hey lukebennett,
Are you going to try for undergrad med next year?
The specialties I'm interested in are:
* cardiothoracic surgery
* neurosurgery
* emergency medicine
* cardiology
* paediatrics (sub-specialties above)

Others I have a mild interest in are:
* OB&GYN
* plastics
* neurology
* orthopaedics

I'm leaning towards cardiothoracics/emergency medicine. I guess I'm just a sucker for pain :D
 

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yeah i did umat but i only remember my percentiles.
72/70/98
section 3 is something i can do even on an off day cos the answers just appear for me ususally.

i guess there is no harm in giving med another go next year. so i guess ill have to do the painful umat again.
 

adrenaline88

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Wow congratulations on your result for Section 3! Personally I'm petrified of the UMAT :S
 

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lukebennett said:
yeah i did umat but i only remember my percentiles.
72/70/98
section 3 is something i can do even on an off day cos the answers just appear for me ususally.

i guess there is no harm in giving med another go next year. so i guess ill have to do the painful umat again.

u legend! :)


can i ask: does school help u out in umat?
 

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