You Can Escape a black hole!! (3 Viewers)

[spartan31234]

You can't escape a black hole

because you cant go faster than the speed of light

this is true, however most people don't know why, which is more important than the truth it self. Knowing the answer by itself will only lead to miscoceptions and relgification of science, my motto in science is that if you don't know why you may as well know nothing about it.
( unless you are an engineer)

Why is the most important question

personally i am surprised why people with HSC level physics haven't question why accelerated object cannot escape black holes, when the reason they can't is apparently due to escape velocity ( it isn't its as a result of general relativity)

 

[Roguedeth]

sure buddy

 

[Pwnage101]

Even after the event horizon

Ok I am sick of hearing, stuff can never escape a black hole -.. so the "escape velocity" is greater than the speed of light - but the escape velocity only applies to projectiles! - ie the initial min velocity to escape a gravitational field where the velocity is zero at infinity(unachievable distance)- so really u can't escape a gravitational field but that’s another storey. Say a black hole has an acceleration so great it escape velocity is ect - ^^ and would create a HUGE weight force W=Mg on say a rocket - all the rocket has to do is to counteract this weight force(+ a bit more) - and there is no such thing as a infinite weight force !!! - and if the trust is controlled the rocket can land on the hole and leave it at any speed it wants!!!! - and the rocket wont disintegrate as well - cause it is very STRONG! – Note !! I kind of contradicted by self ..– cause by definition of escaping a black hole gravitational field is impossible as gravity is zero at infinity (unachievable distance!) - but using that…..definition of escape – moving away.. I know that it is possible to escape a black hole – IF U ACCELERATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! \\

- and don't give me - " a black hole has infinite mass" - cause then the gravitational feild on any mass will be infinte and the whole universe will get sucked in!!

By the way when u fall towards the earth the earth falls towards u! - Equal and opp forces - Gravity and resulant // also have to understand what is an internal and external force as well

Cortana and the Master Chief would be dissapointed; ur physics is dodgy, to say the least

 

[tacogym27101990]

Even after the event horizon
I know that it is possible to escape a black hole

have you escaped one before??

 

[Js^-1]

Yeh, if you are going to post a logical, correctly spelt and puncuated argument, then you can expect people to take you seriously. With your post, you just sound like little kid in year 8 who thinks he is the smartest kid in the world. The fact that your doing the hsc this year makes me optimistic about my own results.

 

[Graney]

Hawking radiation escapes black holes.

 

[spartan31234]

And so can rockets - by the way it is hawking radiation that cause small black holes to be destroyed!

 

[Pwnage101]

just read Version 2, and im gonna have to agree with Roguedeth on ur original post:

sure buddy

 

[melonkitten]

Even after the event horizon

Ok I am sick of hearing, stuff can never escape a black hole -.. so the "escape velocity" is greater than the speed of light - but the escape velocity only applies to projectiles! - ie the initial min velocity to escape a gravitational field where the velocity is zero at infinity(unachievable distance)- so really u can't escape a gravitational field but that’s another storey. Say a black hole has an acceleration so great it escape velocity is ect - ^^ and would create a HUGE weight force W=Mg on say a rocket - all the rocket has to do is to counteract this weight force(+ a bit more) - and there is no such thing as a infinite weight force !!! - and if the trust is controlled the rocket can land on the hole and leave it at any speed it wants!!!! - and the rocket wont disintegrate as well - cause it is very STRONG! – Note !! I kind of contradicted by self ..– cause by definition of escaping a black hole gravitational field is impossible as gravity is zero at infinity (unachievable distance!) - but using that…..definition of escape – moving away.. I know that it is possible to escape a black hole – IF U ACCELERATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! \\

- and don't give me - " a black hole has infinite mass" - cause then the gravitational feild on any mass will be infinte and the whole universe will get sucked in!!

By the way when u fall towards the earth the earth falls towards u! - Equal and opp forces - Gravity and resulant // also have to understand what is an internal and external force as well

kay.

but you cant escape a black hole, moron.

 

[undalay]

Light is very different from a projectile.

 

[scaredytiger]

ok. this is using your logic.
"10kg rocket"
(acceleration being the speed of light)

F = ma
F = 10 x (3x10^8)
F = 3x10^9 N

now note that even if you could generate the force of 3x10^9N to oppose it, you would run out of fuel, and hence be subject once again to the black hole.


in conclusion, you are shit.

 

[tacogym27101990]

ok. this is using your logic.
"10kg rocket"
(acceleration being the speed of light)

F = ma
F = 10 x (3x10^8)
F = 3x10^9 N

now note that even if you could generate the force of 3x10^9N to oppose it, you would run out of fuel, and hence be subject once again to the black hole.


in conclusion, you are shit.

i rate your conclusion

 

[dood09]

Mee Too

 

[spartan31234]

ok. this is using your logic.
"10kg rocket"
(acceleration being the speed of light)

F = ma
F = 10 x (3x10^8)
F = 3x10^9 N
now note that even if you could generate the force of 3x10^9N to oppose it, you would run out of fuel, and hence be subject once again to the black hole.
quote]

- can't u even follow a simple thought experiement - you don't concider things like " running out of fuel " .... and our personal attacks only show you are incapable of attacking my logic

 

[spartan31234]

Light is very different from a projectile.

what i wasn't talking about light.. rockets escaping black holes

 

[scaredytiger]

- can't u even follow a simple thought experiement - you don't concider things like " running out of fuel " .... and our personal attacks only show you are incapable of attacking my logic

um... thought experiments generally flesh out to consider practical elements.

plus, you never mentioned it was a thought experiment.

 

[spartan31234]

wow thats a great explanation! - i think i just stumbled on a conundrum !! well it is explained now in Phys - wiki - ill probably get more info on this tis very interesting - thanks all for the debate

Popular accounts commonly try to explain the black hole phenomenon by using the concept of escape velocity, the speed needed for a vessel starting at the surface of a massive object to completely clear the object's gravitational field. It follows from Newton's law of gravity that a sufficiently dense object's escape velocity will equal or even exceed the speed of light. Citing that nothing can exceed the speed of light they then infer that nothing would be able to escape such a dense object.[15] However, the argument has a flaw in that it doesn't explain why light would be affected by a gravitating body or why it would not be able to escape. Nor does it give a satisfactory explanation for why a powered spaceship would not be able to break free.
Two concepts introduced by Albert Einstein are needed to explain the phenomenon. The first is that time and space are not two independent concepts, but are interrelated forming a single continuum, spacetime. This continuum has some special properties. An object is not free to move around spacetime at will, instead it must always move forwards in time, and not only must an object move forwards in time, it also cannot change its position faster than the speed of light. This is the main result of the theory of special relativity.
The second concept is the base of general relativity: mass deforms the structure of this spacetime. The effect of a mass on spacetime can informally be described as tilting the direction of time towards the mass. As a result, objects tend to move towards masses. This is experienced as gravity. This tilting effect becomes more pronounced as the distance to the mass becomes smaller. At some point close to the mass the tilting becomes so strong that all the possible paths an object can take lead towards the mass.[16] This implies that any object that crosses this point can no longer get further away from the mass, not even using powered flight. This point is called the event horizon --- form WIKI - Refference - not my work WIKI

 

[spartan31234]

sorry mate, im with wikipedia on this one. its more complicated than hsc physics F = ma. not that im calling hsc physics, physics.

I would like to thank you for your reply, you did not do what politicians do all the time! - you replied with physics in a physics Debate.. I totally agree the escape velocity augment is totally inadequate - Alberts version is better - I will look into this.. thanks

I actually posted this thread to see peoples scientific ethics – and intelligence – those who reply with personal attacks are fools as they have nothing better to say. Yet again I say thank you Ps sorry for spelling and grammer mistake - i type to fast lol

 

[lionking1191]

I would like to thank you for your reply, you did not do what politicians do all the time! - you replied with physics in a physics Debate.. I totally agree the escape velocity augment is totally inadequate - Alberts version is better - I will look into this.. thanks

I actually posted this thread to see peoples scientific ethics – and intelligence – those who reply with personal attacks are fools as they have nothing better to say. Yet again I say thank you Ps sorry for spelling and grammer mistake - i type to fast lol

just...no.

 

[lionking1191]

what i wasn't talking about light.. rockets escaping black holes

oh fine... this does not involve sophisticated phys concepts:

consider this: light travels at the speed of light (duh), meaning at no stage in its journey is its velocity below c.

a rocket cannot travel faster than light, but it can, as you emphasised many times, accelerate. it cannot however, reach, or exceed the speed of light.

now I ask, if light cannot escape the blackhole, how can any man-made object?

the whole premise of this question seems to dwell on the constitution of the pronoun "you"
you might like to clarify on that: is 'you' an object? a human? or could it be any form of matter i.e. radiation?