Dutch Politician Suggests to Ban the Quran (2 Viewers)

[samuel slack]

Re: Ban Quran

oops double post.

 

[Justin]

Re: Ban Quran

Let them continue banging their heads against the wall

if you dignify them with a response it makes them think that they aren't worthless because they pounce on what we say like they are some how more intelligent.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Re: Ban Quran

is there an example where it is possible to JUSTIFY racial criticism? How is racisim thoughtful or clear in any sense?

Racism is hatred for no reason - "I hate black people because they are black."

Racial criticism is more dislike than hate and is for a real reason - "I don't like black people because they commit so many crimes."

 

[Justin]

Re: Ban Quran

Racism is hatred for no reason - "I hate black people because they are black."

Racial criticism is more dislike than hate and is for a real reason - "I don't like black people because they commit so many crimes."

But for the criticism to survive you would have to proove that there is something about being black that causes them to commit crime.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Re: Ban Quran

They were manipulated into accepting alcohol, etc from the European settlers. They were told that it was a "magical drink" or whatever. It has happened to various indigenous cultures around the world, inluding native american peoples. They had no knowledge of white europeans and their customs, they were dying in their thousands as they were massacred, poisoned and became diseased, and their elders were dying. They had no idea what they were doing. It is not their fault.

This whole argument annoys me. That is how things worked back then. It's like criticizing the Roman empire for invading other people's territory. Giving native people alcohol without considering the consequences, taking land and even genocide may be wrong by todays standards but it wasn't always.

 

[Justin]

Re: Ban Quran

This whole argument annoys me. That is how things worked back then.

Correct. And it has lasting effects to this day

 

[samuel slack]

Re: Ban Quran

Okay. Lets examine your argument for the british over aboriginals. The invention of technology hasn't led to greater enjoyment of life. Guns vs. spears. Yes, the invention of guns has greatly helped in the development of the human race, now we can kill more people far more easily. yay. And how can you compare who's better, its been proven that aboriginal people are, in general, physically superior to Europeans. Maybe our people just got lucky.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Re: Ban Quran

But for the criticism to survive you would have to proove that there is something about being black that causes them to commit crime.

No you don't. It's not about there being something about being black that causes them to commit crimes, it's about being able to categorize a large group of people who are committing crimes by the fact that they are black... if that makes any sense.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Re: Ban Quran

is there an example where it is possible to JUSTIFY racial criticism? How is racisim thoughtful or clear in any sense?

If you'd like I can try and find an already existing one right now, but I'm a bit lazy. It was an acknowledgement that not all Lebanese youth are egotistic revheads, but that did express that there was a problem with their youth and their behaviour.

I personally would argue that there is a problem with some asian mindsets, for example, that they do not normally let their children adopt western culture, and do not try to compromise, which is of course, quite damaging. And also that they are usually closed off to any other cultures. I think this is a problem, and I would not call my observation/criticsm as racism.

 

[samuel slack]

Re: Ban Quran

It makes sense, but if you are going to start categorising people in that way then you need to look for what is causing this crime. Why is it that black people are committing crime. Is it the fact that black people are more prone to committing crime, is it because they are inherently bad? NO. It is because of a variety of different reasons, usually having something to do with being a minority group whose members are usually second class citizens, receiving welfare and being badly educated. And then you need to examine what in history is the cause of this. Everything has a beginning.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Re: Ban Quran

i agree with you. But has their been any justified racial criticsm in all these posts so far?

such as this one? -
Racial criticism is more dislike than hate and is for a real reason - "I don't like black people because they commit so many crimes."

At least they've justified their reason as to why. You may or may not see it as a valid justification, and that's up to you to debate with them (ie find flaws and give insight) and be prepared to similarly defend your own views. Much in the same way as samuel slack is doing now as a response.

Otherwise, I would be a very biased moderator for shutting down/deleting or banning people who do genuinely hold these thoughts and I merely did not agree with them or I had found their posts ignorant.

Racism in this forum is usually uncalled for, irrelevant or aren't backed up with a reason, such as iamsickofyear12's example of what racism is.

I hope you understand. If you do not, please PM me, rather than set off a tangent within this thread. Thank you

 

[Snaykew]

Re: Ban Quran

No. (I really can't be fucked explaining why)

I'll explain for you, its because they've calmed down. Even when they were lynching it was ok though, because black people don't matter. Right?

There are extremist muslims out there that would like to crush the west, our best way to counter their views imo is to debate them out in public and not simply ignore them, push them under the rug and imagine they've disappeared.

There are people in Western politics who also want to help terrorists do that not by violence, but by legislation.

Fine i agree that they are dangerous but murder and terrorist they are in two different leagues

We can't prevent murder can we? we only can convict the attacker so we do the same for Islams who thinks killing people is cool....we sentence them to life time jail or capital punishment

Lol. One murders with a motive. The other murders with a motive. Wow, so different. Just because one motive is political, it makes the crime so different?

ban islam in public, completely stop muslims immigration

We should also ban all Asians. They are becoming too productive in Australia. I mean ffs, they are EARNING their place in society! We can't have that! We don't want hard working people who contribute to society, they aren't of European descent!

Okay. Lets examine your argument for the british over aboriginals. The invention of technology hasn't led to greater enjoyment of life. Guns vs. spears. Yes, the invention of guns has greatly helped in the development of the human race, now we can kill more people far more easily. yay. And how can you compare who's better, its been proven that aboriginal people are, in general, physically superior to Europeans. Maybe our people just got lucky.

The conception of the gun is awesome! You get to forcefully make people live in freedom! How awesome is that?! We are the Borg, resistance is futile.

In the Netherlands there is already 4 million.

Besides, banning the Quran would be pointless.

Oh wow, in the time since the original post and your post, the Dutch Muslim population grew by 3 million. That's amazing, they are breeding beyond rabbits!

"Dont judge a religion by the followers"

What are we supposed to judge it by, then?

Also, ripping on Islam is not racism. It is a belief system, and so ripping on it is no different to hating communism/capitalism/people who like choc-chip cupcakes.

Choc-chip cupcakes ftw!

Leaving aside the support of a large minority of muslims for terrorism many muslims have fundumental qualms about many tenets of western liberalism ie equality between men and women, freedom of speech etc. Obviously it would be impossible to screen individuals for what their thoughts on western values are so taking fewer muslims as a whiole would be the only practical option.

You're right. Islam is the only religious institution that when combined with government, actively discriminates. No other religion has ever done this before when they were the ruling power of a country. We must fear for our secular society of having non-Christians in it.

Protip: Turkey is secular.

By the way you don't think the fact that many muslim countries are unstable shitholes, that have few if any civil rights might have something to do with the fact that they are muslim? I mean Turkey the one muslim democracy in the middle east has to have a web of extensive laws to keep a lid on the muslim nutters backed up by a threat of an army coup.

Refer to above.

Yeah Libya's a fantastic place gdp per capita of $12300 and run by a dictator. Dubai and Qatar are oil rich oligarchies with hardly any civil rights.

Holy shit you are an economic expert. All economics would kowtow in your knowledge that per capita GDP is the most accurate determination of living standards.

wat the hell u going on about with any no civil rights?? dubias one of the richest countries in the world, clearly because all races and sexes have been given equalty. plus Qaddafi over threw the monarchy,a nd actaully was given his leadership, so ha! he didnt get his position any other way than popularity vote, and hes only intimidating against pro western people. if you dont understand his background, then dont state that hes a dictator.

Holy shit you are also an expert on law because income has everything to do with the legal system and rights.

Of course the stupid people aren't going to agree with me.

I like your thinking. Death to those who oppose me. Oh wait, what does that sound like..

They mis apply the word "racism", but that doesn't take away from what they are trying to say.

PS: indonesia isn't a race.

Maybe he meant Indonesians smart guy.

ok, firstly this is the dumbest post of the thread, and i havent even read all of it.
"aboriginals were useless" - useless for what? everybody has a right to life, just because their way of existence doesnt conform to your standards, doesnt make their life less meaningful.
how does their accommodation affect your life?
mind you they wouldnt be sniffing petrol, drinking alcohol and looking at porn all day, had white man not introduced it to them

Living peacefully from the rest of the world is NOT acceptable. Death to those who seek peace. Death to Buddhists.

Last I checked nobody's been coerced into substance abuse.

I'm sure nobody was coerced into catching new diseases that came to Australia too.

I disagree. Everyone does not have an equal right to life. Some people are better than others.

No.

No you don't. It's not about there being something about being black that causes them to commit crimes, it's about being able to categorize a large group of people who are committing crimes by the fact that they are black... if that makes any sense.

Exactly. A few thousand people is a clear representation of 30 million African-Americans who don't commit crime.

I personally would argue that there is a problem with some asian mindsets, for example, that they do not normally let their children adopt western culture, and do not try to compromise, which is of course, quite damaging. And also that they are usually closed off to any other cultures. I think this is a problem, and I would not call my observation/criticsm as racism.

Wow, "some" became "usually". Wow, I must not know western culture and all my relatives too. Damn man, where did I learn my love for vegemite, American TV and a fair go for everyone? Obviously most of my relatives are "usually" closed off from Western culture. We ban our kids from watching normal television too! We brainwash them with 24/7 Asian soapies.

You can't (it's impossible), because the only variable is skin colour. It's like arguing that brown eyed people are bad and green eyed people are good.

Stop discriminating against me!

====

Anyway, here's my discriminative generalisations. "Usually" husbands will beat their wives because that's what I am getting from TV and what people say about the issue so I will totally ignore reality.

Also, sure ban one religious book. However, also ban the book it was rooted from. Infact, let's initiate genocide against all religious and non-white people because they are inferior. Death to the infidels!

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Re: Ban Quran

how is that justified?

you make no sense at all.

i agree with you. But has their been any justified racial criticsm in all these posts so far?

such as this one? -
Racial criticism is more dislike than hate and is for a real reason - "I don't like black people because they commit so many crimes."

Racism in this forum is usually uncalled for, irrelevant or aren't backed up with a reason, such as iamsickofyear12's example of what racism is.

I hope you understand. If you do not, please PM me, rather than set off a tangent within this thread. Thank you

I should of clarified with "assuming black people actually commit more crimes"

I was hoping someone would use some common sense so I didn't have to have a huge explanation justifying my definition but obviously that's too much to ask for. There is no good example of racial criticism I could make without someone complaining that it wasn't true.

 

[Snaykew]

Re: Ban Quran

Poor people commit the most crime.

 

[onebytwo]

Re: Ban Quran

So if I become addicted to heroin, I should blame the drug, rather than myself for being an idiot and abusing it?

well our current laws have a larger focus on punishing drug suppliers than they do on punishing drug addicts.

 

[onebytwo]

Re: Ban Quran

Poor people commit the most crime.

hmm..interesting you bring this up. lets adopt a microeconomic, relative price theory approach. now, why is it that crime rates amongst the poorer class are higher than that of richer people. relative price theory tells us we make decisions based on relative prices or opportunity cost. for a rich person committing a crime carries too large an opportunity cost, they'd rather be swimming in their large backyard pool, sipping on some red wine than risk doing something that would put them in prison. that is, they have a lot to lose.
on the other hand, a poor person has a lot less to lose, being in a prison cell isn't going to be much different to barely passing to pay the rent, paying for food, etc., heck it might be even better! this is why they are more willing to brush aside the law.

 

[withoutaface]

Re: Ban Quran

well our current laws have a larger focus on punishing drug suppliers than they do on punishing drug addicts.

I'm not asking what the status quo is. I'm asking whether it's unreasonable that people take responsibility for their own stupid decisions.

 

[withoutaface]

Re: Ban Quran

hmm..interesting you bring this up. lets adopt a microeconomic, relative price theory approach. now, why is it that crime rates amongst the poorer class are higher than that of richer people. relative price theory tells us we make decisions based on relative prices or opportunity cost. for a rich person committing a crime carries too large an opportunity cost, they'd rather be swimming in their large backyard pool, sipping on some red wine than risk doing something that would put them in prison. that is, they have a lot to lose.
on the other hand, a poor person has a lot less to lose, being in a prison cell isn't going to be much different to barely passing to pay the rent, paying for food, etc., heck it might be even better! this is why they are more willing to brush aside the law.

That only applies to direct theft of goods.

 

[onebytwo]

Re: Ban Quran

I'm not asking what the status quo is. I'm asking whether it's unreasonable that people take responsibility for their own stupid decisions.

its not only about decsions its about circumstance too.
aborigines have had their history stolen from them, to say, they cant go back to living how theyd lived for thousands of years, because the present generation doesnt know how. they dont want to accept "european" nor "british" values, becasue they see this the source of their peoples downfall. so their basically stuck between two worlds - one they want but cant get and one they can get but dont want. now if you ask me whether this should or shouldnt make somebody turn top drugs, i dont know - what to do with aboriginies? i dont know

 

[onebytwo]

Re: Ban Quran

That only applies to direct theft of goods.

murder?
rich guys killing poor guys vs. poor guys killing rich guys?