Labor's policies= Our policies (1 Viewer)

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Not-That-Bright

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I find much more stupid lefties (interested somewhat in politics) than stupid righties...
Most of the stupid people that would be right wingers don't care enough about politics to really ever have a voice.

But I guess it's a matter of perspective somewhat, I expect that to Asquithian any supporter of the Liberal party is stupid because they are evil and all they've ever done good for this country is gun control reform :rolleyes:
 

Generator

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Not-That-Bright said:
I find much more stupid lefties (interested somewhat in politics) than stupid righties...
Most of the stupid people that would be right wingers don't care enough about politics to really ever have a voice.
I think that it is that you are less likely to notice those with a similar frame of mind (i.e., on the right) more so than there being a greater number of stupid people on the left.

Edit: I'm referring to NTB in this case rather than a general you.
 

Not-That-Bright

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I actually find most conservatives start off rather .. not very conservative (unless they're the religious type) then as time goes on they gain in their knowledge and understanding, becomming more conservative.
This is rather different to your typical liberal left winger, they seem to start off with protests and running around demanding to everyone that the right is evil.

As for right wing stupidity, I think it comes from a lack of knowledge (like left wing stupidity), they have these beliefs but they don't know why or how to back them up, they just believe it to be true.

I dunno generator, do you really meet too many out-spoken conservatives? I think the numbers of stupidity would probably fall around even, perhaps more on the right, but I think alot of people on the right simply don't express their views. I know it's a matter of perspective... but when stupid right wingers (korn - sorry bud, but you get quite a few things wrong and it just doesn't sound right) say something around here I seem to notice.
 
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Personally I believe that left-wing policies tend to emphasise the collective whereas right wing policies tend to emphasise the individual. As the majority of people are part of the collective, they'd tend to be left wing (excluding church groups etc.) whereas more 'outstanding individuals' (either good outstanding or bad outstanding) would tend to assosciate with right wing policies more.
 

Not-That-Bright

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what center? The centre between facism and communism?

It's a nice view to have that as people gain in knowledge they will go more towards the centre, but while I feel people will gain in understanding and perhaps even respect for the other side, they will remain firmly on their favoured ideology.

edit: I think rorix means outstanding as in, the people who have more reclusive individual beliefs.
 

Not-That-Bright

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I find it interesting that the left tends to believe free trade is bad.
In the context of say... European nations having true free trade with africa, how can that be bad?
 

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Not-That-Bright said:
I find it interesting that the left tends to believe free trade is bad.
In the context of say... European nations having true free trade with africa, how can that be bad?
Free Trade= Globalisation= Greater divide between the RICH & Poor= BAD

There are a few more of these equations in my head :)
 

Not-That-Bright

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umm lowering trade barriers between europe and africa = african economies can get going (under good management) = africa can pull ITS SELF out of famine = europe has to specialise and compete in different sectors.
 

zahid

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Not-That-Bright said:
umm lowering trade barriers between europe and africa = african economies can get going (under good management) = africa can pull ITS SELF out of famine = europe has to specialise and compete in different sectors.

QUOTE--------------------InterPress Service September 8, 1998

Nairobi - Globalization would not have produced much negative impact in Africa if governments consulted with trade unions to ensure that economic programs meet social requirements such as workers welfare, according to trade union officials here. The officials, attending a three-day seminar on Freedom of Association which opened here today, blamed African governments for "blind complicity" with forces of globalization in developed countries, which they claimed have eroded the power of African governments to control and run their economies and improve the living standards of their people.

"The dangers of a globalized economy is that investors come into our countries, give conditionalities and governments accept them without consulting their social partners," said Andrew Kailembo of the Nairobi-based International Confederation of Free Trade Unions (ICFTU). Kailembo, the secretary general of the ICFTU, singled out the Export Processing Zones (EPZs) which, he said, violates workers' rights and contravenes international labor laws.

He said hundreds of thousands of workers have been laid off under the Structural Adjustment Programs (SAPs), and that thousands of others, in EPZs, are made to work long hours and not allowed to form labor unions. "We are not saying there shouldn't be SAPs and EPZs, but social partners should be consulted when such programs are being implemented," said Kailembo, criticizing EPZs' anti-labor aspects. "We know that globalization was inevitable, but the way it has come, it is lacking a human face, and this is what we are fighting".

The seminar is being attended by about 30 top East African and International Labor Organization (ILO) officials. "The parley is seeking ways in which workers in the region can enjoy more freedom of association by joining trade unions of their choice and be able to determine the way they are run," according to a document distributed by the organizers here.

Participants said the EPZs had not only violated the Universal Declaration of Human Rights ratified by the U.N. in 1948, but also ILO's 87th convention adopted the same year, which recognizes the rights of workers to association and also protects their rights to organize. The ILO celebrates its 5Oth anniversary this year.

The EPZs is not, however, the only challenge facing the labor unions in the region. The impact of globalization on labor rights has further been worsened by the conflicting labor laws in the three East African countries of Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania.
In Kenya, for example, more than 150,000 school teachers are threatening to go on strike in October if President Daniel arap Moi's government fails to implement a salary increase which it had promised earlier. It will be the second strike by teachers this year. The strike notice comes barely a month after bankers walked off the job to protest a new tax on their fringe benefits. Last year, both teachers and nurses took to the streets demanding better pay. The government declared the strikes illegal, although authorities were served with a 21-day mandatory warning notice required by Kenyan laws. "This is a sign that available legislation don't provide for proper dispute settlements," an ILO official said.

Unlike Kenya and Tanzania, Uganda's government has abandoned the idea of establishing EPZ as the country's trade unions opposed. This, however, does not mean that Ugandan workers enjoy freedom of association, according to Wilson Okello of Uganda's National Organization of Trade Unions (NUTU). "The government wants investors, but it does not push them hard when their interests clash with workers' rights," he said. ILO's East African regional director, Ali Ibrahim, sees the region's labor problems in its historical context. "I think the three countries (which were ruled by Britain) have similar union problems because their national labor laws came from the same colonial background," he said. "Some of the labor legislation seem to be out of step with reality, and need to be brought back to reality after 30 years or so of independence," he added.

For instance, labor laws in East Africa still require a national trade union, to which others are affiliated. This monopoly, according to the ILO convention, is a violation of ILO's recognition of union pluralism. George Odiko, a Kenyan trade unionist, agreed. "Perhaps we should find how our governments can, instead of using their old legislation, incorporate international conventions which are very clear on the rights of workers," he said.

There are already signs that East African governments are modifying their constitutions. In Kenya, a parliamentary committee has been set up to modernize labor laws, while in Uganda, a similar technical committee has started working on the revision of outdated labor legislation. And a new trade union bill will soon be debated in Tanzanian parliament. "We are also seeking to harmonize our labor laws so that investors don't get a chance to play East African countries against each other to compete for investments at the expense of workers," said Okello.

------ENDS-----
 

Not-That-Bright

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I don't see how that has anything to do with true free trade with europe.
Yes i kno asquithian, and I think that is wrong... as most forms of protectionism are.
Perhaps the UN should come in and actually bargain for these countries? to make sure they're not getting a raw deal?
 

Generator

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zahid, the only true problem facing Africa in a globalising world is the nature of the preferential trading networks that operate to largely exclude the African continent (edit: and that tend to favour the western nation-states)... Globalisation itself isn't bad, rather it's the nature of the process at the current time that should be questioned.
 

zahid

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Not-That-Bright said:
umm.. I don't see how that has anything to do with true free trade with europe.
No i was just refering to negative impacts of free trade on African countires in general.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Yea but that isn't REALLY free trade.
While I don't think it's the TRUE answer to their problems right now, once there is some political stability and perhaps some infrastructure this would be a great starting block.
 

zahid

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Generator said:
zahid, the only true problem facing Africa in a globalising world is the nature of the preferential trading networks that operate to largely exclude the African continent... Globalisation itself isn't bad, rather it's the nature of the process at the current time that should be questioned.
Yes generator is correct...radical action in favour of trade Liberalisation is perhaps not the best thing in my opinion.
 

sweet_gurl_tina

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GREAT, you guys are talking about economics now, did you guys know that it was the LABOR government that initiated most of our economic and trade reforms?

PRETTY COOL HUH?
 

Not-That-Bright

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True free trade would simply be the true opening of the markets by both countries.
A situation where african goat farmers can compete against french goat farmers on an almost even playing field with no artificial trade barriers (and most obviously) beat them.

Yes! I thank Bob Hawke for opening up our markets and realising how wrong protectionism was in our country.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Yea and I think that was wrong.
They shouldn't protect their inefficient grain growers, they should bring them up to speed or accept that they're gone.
 

zahid

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Not-That-Bright said:
A situation where african goat farmers can compete against french goat farmers on an almost even playing field.
PERHAPS....very optimistic...maybe a distant reality, with the amount of subsidies the European farmers receive an "even playing ground" does not seem possible.
 

Generator

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zahid said:
Yes generator is correct...radical action in favour of trade Liberalisation is perhaps not the best thing in my opinion.
zahid said:
what do u mean exactly?
As not-that-bright is saying, what you believe to be free trade is hardly as free as the term suggests. To tell the truth, trade liberalisation in many industries may well be of benefit to all (those in the developing countries in particular), yet we cannot know this till there is a global shift away from preferential networks that reinforce the protectionist nature of many developed economies to the detriment of those they are pressuring to structurally 'reform'.

Of course, there are some things that should never be liberalised in their entirety... Education and health services, for example.
 
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