Utegate - sympathy for Turnbull (3 Viewers)

[munchiecrunchie]

Yea but the way it was handled was...



LOOK LOOK LOOK LOOK LOOK!!!! KRUDD IS A DIRTY CHEATING SCOUNDREL!!!!!!


As opposed to "So Mr. Rudd, there was this e-mail... is it true?"

Would've been win win. If it was true = win, if it wasn't true, then he just appears as a concerned member of the opposite party wanting the governments leader to not be a dirty cheat.


Whereas instead it just came across as "VOTE FOR ME ME ME ME ME!!!!!"

qft. his attitude was completely whacked. he deserves all the criticism.

 

[A High Way Man]

You indian?

to OP, we all will forget this in a few weeks.

why would an indian punch gandhi (unless they were muslim)

 

[bigboyjames01]

why would an indian punch gandhi (unless they were muslim)

fuck off.

 

[Kalashnikov47]

Sympathy for politicians?!!! Geeez mate you gotta be kidding me

 

[rohanpur]

Yea but the way it was handled was...



LOOK LOOK LOOK LOOK LOOK!!!! KRUDD IS A DIRTY CHEATING SCOUNDREL!!!!!!


As opposed to "So Mr. Rudd, there was this e-mail... is it true?"

Would've been win win. If it was true = win, if it wasn't true, then he just appears as a concerned member of the opposite party wanting the governments leader to not be a dirty cheat.


Whereas instead it just came across as "VOTE FOR ME ME ME ME ME!!!!!"

I think this pretty much sums it up, short and sweet.

 

[Riet]

Re: utegate- sympathy for tunrbull

The left media (Fairfax, ABC) did a masterful job of shutting down the potentially damaging allegations implicating Swan. I actually believe that people will forgive Turnbull over this one because a) it the email had been genuine and he didn't act on it, he would have been perceived as lacking leadership, but more importantly b) the majority of the electorate just don't give a shit.

Fairfax... left...

 

[Iron]

Re: utegate- sympathy for tunrbull

Utter genius to flee to Afghanistan. Lives to fight another day.
Redemption imo

 

[Lentern]

Not really, I feel sorry for him but hardly because of utegate. He came to the leadership at the wrong time and had handled himself very well for little opinion poll payout. With that in mind I think Turnbull will never ever become prime minister so if he is as vain as pollies are rumoured to be then what matters is his cause for losing. But for .................. Malcolm Turnbull would have become prime minister. Being fed forged evidence against the prime minister and the treasurer is far more dashing than being too rich, too pompous, too conservative, too weak or whatever other excuses will be made up in the post hoc narratives.

I have far greater sympathy for Nelson. He had no watergate event in his leadership so will go down as just being hopeles when he was really a victim of circumstance.

 

[css]

More pity for Godwin Grech, but respect cause it's apparent he conned Turnbull.

 

[Kwayera]

Bek's blog: Utegate, as told by LOLCATS - now with Monday's opinyun pollz including the Austrayan online Liberal leadership pollz

 

[jb_nc]

Re: utegate- sympathy for tunrbull

The left media (Fairfax, ABC) did a masterful job of shutting down the potentially damaging allegations implicating Swan. I actually believe that people will forgive Turnbull over this one because a) it the email had been genuine and he didn't act on it, he would have been perceived as lacking leadership, but more importantly b) the majority of the electorate just don't give a shit.

lmao

 

[hermand]

imo, i think it probably was true, but that turnbull just couldn't find hardcore evidence for it, cause they covered their tracks too well. i could be way off. but it hasn't lessened my opinion of the liberal party.

krudd on rove was denying it almost too much, if you count how many times he says forgery, fake, etc, it's way over the top.

 

[Lentern]

imo, i think it probably was true, but that turnbull just couldn't find hardcore evidence for it, cause they covered their tracks too well. i could be way off. but it hasn't lessened my opinion of the liberal party.

krudd on rove was denying it almost too much, if you count how many times he says forgery, fake, etc, it's way over the top.

A significant portion of voters will not change who they vote for irrespective of what goes on in between of elections. In the eyes of such people the actions of one party are met with optimism and forgiveness whilst the actions of the other are met with misstrust and cynicism. Most people you speak to will not have their minds changed by utegate one iota. Don't think it won't effect the electorate just because you're not one of the 2 people in ten whom might, elections are decided by margins of around 5 percent normally.

 

[Passa91]

He relied on evidence given in a senate inquiry. He doesn't "lose credibility" just because the email turned out to be fake, Godwin Grech does. The allegations against Swan were never properly disproved and thanks to the media, never will be. The media's handling of the issue has been a total farce.

Also, Rudd "giving it to Turnbull" on Rove? He was announced as a guest after the shit hit the fan for Turnbull over the email. The man is obsessed with the media and uses it to his every advantage. I won't forget how he appeared on every commercial television station in a national address after the announcement for the first stimulus package, explaining what everyone would get - before it had been tabled in parliament.

Labor supporters can keep riding their 'Kevin 07' bandwagons, but in reality, Rudd won't be well remembered in history as a notable Prime Minister, so in the meantime I'm left wondering why everyone fawns over the guy.

 

[Lentern]

He relied on evidence given in a senate inquiry. He doesn't "lose credibility" just because the email turned out to be fake, Godwin Grech does. The allegations against Swan were never properly disproved and thanks to the media, never will be. The media's handling of the issue has been a total farce.

Also, Rudd "giving it to Turnbull" on Rove? He was announced as a guest after the shit hit the fan for Turnbull over the email. The man is obsessed with the media and uses it to his every advantage. I won't forget how he appeared on every commercial television station in a national address after the announcement for the first stimulus package, explaining what everyone would get - before it had been tabled in parliament.

Labor supporters can keep riding their 'Kevin 07' bandwagons, but in reality, Rudd won't be well remembered in history as a notable Prime Minister, so in the meantime I'm left wondering why everyone fawns over the guy.

We love Kevin because unlike Howard and his cowtowing to big business and namby pamby bible bashers Kevin is a conviction politician. He's not afraid to take the tough decisions, like going into deficit to avoid a recession even though he knew how much political capital was riding on keeping it in surplus. Unlike Howard he wasn't a little girl about the apology scared of compensation claims that might come as a consequence of it, Kevin saw something that shouldto be done and he did it.

Climate change is another area where Kevin didn't cave, Howard was just a puppett for industry but not Rudd. Rudd ignored the serious threats from the unions on the one hand warning him that he'd pay for any job lossess he caused and the greenies on the other and produced a balanced, sensible response rather than an extreme one that would have won him more votes.

We might not all agree with his decisions but we agree that he does what he does not because its popular but because it is in the nations interest and thats what makes a good prime minister, thats what separates Rudd from every other prime minister and premier in the past thirty years.

 

[Lentern]

Ofcourse not everyone appreciated Kevin's convictions. When you take the hard decisions inevitably someone(you) is going to be unhappy with the result and will claim there are separate motives. They would rather a populist politician whom would allways make sure they got a fair share of the cake, even if it wasn't allways as much as they deserved. But thats just life if you want to live the life of a conviction politician, some people won't like you, but the majority will respect you.

 

[whatashotbyseve]

We love Kevin because unlike Howard and his cowtowing to big business and namby pamby bible bashers Kevin is a conviction politician. He's not afraid to take the tough decisions, like going into deficit to avoid a recession even though he knew how much political capital was riding on keeping it in surplus. Unlike Howard he wasn't a little girl about the apology scared of compensation claims that might come as a consequence of it, Kevin saw something that shouldto be done and he did it.

How is going into deficit in an attempt to head off recession a tough decision? It is the easy way out from my view. It takes leadership and charisma to tell the people "no, we are cutting spending - because we can't afford it", not "we are in a recession people, spend, spend, spend like there is no tomorrow - hell, have $900 on us!".

Lincoln's famous quote springs to mind: "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

 

[Lentern]

How is going into deficit in an attempt to head off recession a tough decision? It is the easy way out from my view. It takes leadership and charisma to tell the people "no, we are cutting spending - because we can't afford it", not "we are in a recession people, spend, spend, spend like there is no tomorrow - hell, have $900 on us!".

Lincoln's famous quote springs to mind: "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

The central theme in the campaigns against labor since 1990 have been that they accumulate debt. A weaker man might have sworn he could hear Peter Costello ringing in his ears "I told you if Labor came into power the budget would go into deficit" followed by the pitter patter of voters scurrying back to the safe, surplus producing liberals but not Rudd. He knew that it was in the nations interest to go into temporary deficit and did so irrespective of the political fallout that would surely come from it and we all relish what a luxury it is to have a prime minister who will act in our interst instead of changing foreign policy in an election campaign to manipulate fears of terrorism.

 

[Lentern]

This whole discussion is ridiculous. None of us know what is going on in KRudd's head. Frankly, I don't care if he is a man of conviction, though I doubt it very much.

I'd rather someone who spinelessly pandered to public opinion than some nutter who always stuck to his own crazy views.

I don't even see what is so wrong with pandering to opinion polls ect. Isn't the whole point of a democracy that the politicians do what the people want, rather than what they personally think is best?

No if that was the case you'd make it exclusively parliamentary(no executive) and have a much larger representative base. Every act of government must be by consensus of the parliament of say 800 mps. Our style of government is more about electing the man most qualified, than backing off for a few years to let him do his job before evaluating down the track.

 

[Lentern]

Well I don't agree with any of this democracy crap of course.

But we do let them do their job. However, surely you agree that we have a duty to be vigilant. Politicians know that sooner or later they will be up for re-election, and if they don't constantly do what voters want, they will be voted out, especially if the public is constantly vigilant.

Yeah but people acknowlege they are ignorant on most particulars and need the government to back its own judgement rather than pander to the uninformed instincts of the massess.