-
Want to help us with this year's BoS Trials? Let us know before 30 June. See this thread for details -
Looking for HSC notes and resources? Check out our Notes & Resources page
Is war ever justified? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter loquasagacious
- Start date
Big Boss
Banned
Without violence, the English would not been able to have seized Terra Nullius and established the territory we call today Australia.
War will be inevitable and everyone must be ready to defend themselves and fight at a moment's notice.
One must fight to live and live to fight, you are free when you die.
This man is speaking the truth that many cannot handle.
War will be inevitable and everyone must be ready to defend themselves and fight at a moment's notice.
One must fight to live and live to fight, you are free when you die.
Serius
Beyond Godlike
...assasination, convince them that its not worth it by crippling their country with trade sanctions, sabotage, turn members of his cabinet, spy on him, general subterfuge to discredit him and remove him from power.
WW2 wouldnt have happened if the allies had cleaned up properly after WW1.
Random_dude
Member
i would like to say that when a war occurs, let the leaders of all the nations fighting, instead of giant armies, go into an all round death match and declare the survivor the winner.
katie tully
ashleey luvs roosters
Lately we haven't had a justifiable reason to go to war. Our perception of war is different from that of our grandfathers, and media (news, videos, pictures) have changed all of this for us.
Was our involvement in WW2 justified? Yes. Was the declaration of war against the Germans etc justified? Yes. I can't really think of any wars since that can be completely justified, Vietnam being an example.
That said, I think regardless of what you think of war, we should still have the utmost respect for our troops who are currently serving. It would sicken me to see a repeat of the reception troops received after Nam.
Was our involvement in WW2 justified? Yes. Was the declaration of war against the Germans etc justified? Yes. I can't really think of any wars since that can be completely justified, Vietnam being an example.
That said, I think regardless of what you think of war, we should still have the utmost respect for our troops who are currently serving. It would sicken me to see a repeat of the reception troops received after Nam.
Iron
Ecclesiastical Die-Hard
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2004
- Messages
- 7,765
- Gender
- Male
- HSC
- 2004
Poor reception of troops was sort of following terribly excellent reports showing brutal tactics employed against Vietnamese civilians due to the immense difficulty in discerning actual enemies. This was when people could see the horrors unfolding on television in their living room for the first time. It must have been pretty shocking and difficult for society to accept that we seemed to be the bad guys -esp after we'd had good reason to believe that in WW2 we saved the world etc- and a negative reaction against the troops seemed like a fair response - 'not in my name' etc
To put it in the modern context, I doubt that we'd be throwing too many parades for prision wardens returning from Iraq etc (tho prez obama wussed out on a full investigation of torture)
To put it in the modern context, I doubt that we'd be throwing too many parades for prision wardens returning from Iraq etc (tho prez obama wussed out on a full investigation of torture)
AlleyCat
Singing me and Julio
i have very little respect for troops.
fair enough if a country has conscription, but to voluntarily train yourself up to go kill people is something i cannot get behind.
at the same time, i think the treatment of soldiers returning from vietnam was horrible on a human level, i dont think anyone deserves that.
i dont think anyone deserves to die either however.
...and yes. i know i have rose coloured glasses on. i'm not naive at all, i realise the state of the world. but i cannot resign myself to the "necessity" of warfare, no matter what.
fair enough if a country has conscription, but to voluntarily train yourself up to go kill people is something i cannot get behind.
at the same time, i think the treatment of soldiers returning from vietnam was horrible on a human level, i dont think anyone deserves that.
i dont think anyone deserves to die either however.
...and yes. i know i have rose coloured glasses on. i'm not naive at all, i realise the state of the world. but i cannot resign myself to the "necessity" of warfare, no matter what.
Iron
Ecclesiastical Die-Hard
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2004
- Messages
- 7,765
- Gender
- Male
- HSC
- 2004
What?
Theyre almost always defending life, damnit. When theyre not doing that, like they were in Vietnam and probably Iraq, sure they lose public respect. They dont have some fascist blank check of public support. There are checks!
But son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
Theyre almost always defending life, damnit. When theyre not doing that, like they were in Vietnam and probably Iraq, sure they lose public respect. They dont have some fascist blank check of public support. There are checks!
But son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
AlleyCat
Singing me and Julio
whatever dude. i dont support the troops.
AlleyCat
Singing me and Julio
bite me
Tulipa
Loose lips sink ships
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2004
- Messages
- 1,922
- Gender
- Female
- HSC
- 2005
He can't, it's against his religion.
And to answer the original question, yes but we go to war without justification so often these days, and the very nature of war is evolving so quickly, that it's difficult to really figure out what could a justify war in modern times.
Garygaz
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2007
- Messages
- 1,827
- Gender
- Male
- HSC
- 2008
North Korea could justify a war, it's proven that sanctions and diplomacy don't always work. When Kim Jong dies and a new, unknown and potentially crazy as bat shit dictator comes in, pre-emptive strikes, in my eyes, would be justified.
Smile_Time351
Member
Shit 'dude', you just got presented with one of the greatest speeches in film history, one that has rational people reeling in awe, with a new found respect for our (to use a cliche) gallant troops, assuming they didn't already, and your response is: 'whatever dude'? COME ON! if you're going to be a fucking pacifist then at least support your argument with some thing solid!
No one's asking you to pick up a weapon (except maybe Jessob and/or Iron) and fight, just show some fucking respect for those who do. Just a thought.
Big Boss
Banned
Soldiers should be treated with utmost respect.
A person must find their own reason to fight and soldiers have taken up that opportunity to do so.
They fight as brave men who could fall the very next day to protect the weak cowards within that nation that form its civilians and government so they can live another day in gluttony.
A person must find their own reason to fight and soldiers have taken up that opportunity to do so.
They fight as brave men who could fall the very next day to protect the weak cowards within that nation that form its civilians and government so they can live another day in gluttony.
AlleyCat
Singing me and Julio
oh i'm sorry.
was i supposed to take my panties off at the end of that delicious bowl of copypasta?
EDIT: why should i respect people who are diametrically opposed to my belief system.
i dont think war is justified because i dont like killing and i believe in diplomacy.
i could try and google a movie that will have you "reeling in awe" but i'd rather express what i believe in short, easy to understand sentences.
I dont support the troops.
killing is wrong in any form.
don't agree with me, fine. obvsly most of the world is on your side.
Last edited:
E
Empyrean444
Guest
But there is little point in having a non-naive understanding if you then follow a naive set of values.
AlleyCat
Singing me and Julio
i dont think my values are naive. idealistic, but not naive.
iron i get what you are saying about diplomacy having its limits, i just dont think we've ever reached those limits.
going to war, even to save innocents, causes so much more pain and suffering than it alleviates. i just think there are better ways.