Gay people should not be allowed to access IVF (1 Viewer)

Garygaz

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no it sets an example different to the draconian set of values you seem to hold.
why is this thread even still going?
seriously, if straight people are allowed access to IVF of course gay couples should be.
end of discussion
One person would be able to have a child bar an illness. The other can't because it is impossible to do naturally. IVF should only be used as a method for those who previously would have been able to.
 

brittanica-

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kokoda you are severely narrow minded
a gay couple would probably have more capcbility of raising a child better than some straight couples do
 

brittanica-

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One person would be able to have a child bar an illness. The other can't because it is impossible to do naturally. IVF should only be used as a method for those who previously would have been able to.
why????
really and turly apart from the fact that you think that gay couples are "disgusting" and "un natural"
Why?
 

beaf

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Gay couples have every right to raise a child. Their sexual preferance is not something they can control and it should'nt prohibit them from the chance to be able to conceive.

There is no evidence a child brought up by a gay couple will be any less successful then one brought up by a straight couple. Sure they may be discriminated against but these days you will be discriminated against in any reason, maybe because you come from a poor family you get teased at school. This is no different to be teased for being brought up by a gay couple then to being teased because you are rich or poor, come from a wild family or a tight ass family.

Being teased is not reason enough for a couple to be denied the right of child rearing.

What about designer babies, or people who want children with particular traits, how do they have any more right to IVF then gay couples? They don't.
 

jonathancollins

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yes gay people have every right to be with the same sex. but gays should not be able to have IVF, if they want to have kids have a child with a women or as a man. people should stop playing god if you cant have a kid tough luck.
 

beaf

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Your are truly a dick. IVF is there for people who cant have children because of medical conditions or simply would like to try for a child, its excellent technology that has helped alot of people and if they really are willing to go through with the procedures, and the needles and take the time to go through IVF then maybe they truly deserve it.
 

Tangent

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As an only child in a single parent family, I cannot beleive the passion you people have towards gay IVF rights. I have first-handedly experienced the inability of my father to provide a motherly balance in the care he has taken of me. I was only 2 when my mother left, and don't even remember her. Even though I know my mother is out there I feel as though a part of me is missing from growing up without her, and I am all the worse for it. Now, I don't see how two same sex people can provide this mother-father balance, and I don't see the right of anybody to put any child into that vulnerable position. Many of the problem I have today, my insecurities, I feel are directly related to this mother-father balance that I have been speaking about which a homosexual couple cannot provide for any child.
So you wish that you were never born? Or just that you didnt have a very good childhood? The fact is that even though he is your parent, he can only do as much as he could do, not because he is male, but because of his personality, im guessing also having to support the family- limiting his time he could spend with you. With only one person raising a child it is hard, and you're lucky you didn't have any siblings.

Everyone would have to go through the same procedures to get the ok for IVF treatment. This is put in pace to ensure the child is raised in loving family.

Also, what are these insecurities, and how are they related to you being brought up by your father. How would it have been any different if your mother was there, or if you were brought up by a same-sex couple?

I'm sorry for being so harsh, but i too know what it is like being brought up in a single-parent family, especially when my we moved 4 hours away from my mum while i was still in year 4.

I feel your pain. I grew up without a father, and it's screwed me up. It's very painful knowing your different from anyone else at school. I could only imagine, what it would be like for a child to grow up with two mothers, i mean, the bullying, the torment, mental anguish, and what about that awkward conversation that's going to happen, where they're going to have to explain the birds, the bees, and the fact that they're homosexual. Right now, i don't mind gay marriages, as it isn't hurting anybody. but bringing someone up like this is just....wrong. I think these couples are only doing this as a symbol that they're gay, and proud, without thinking properly about how the child will be affected. i hate that.
If you had read the whole of the thread, you would have found some answers.

It is easy to say that they would be bullied, ignoring the fact that it is others who are bullying them, because they view having two mothers or two fathers as strange. It is sending out the message that if someone is being picked on, then the person must have something wrong and they should be fixed- instead of dealing with the bully.

Birds and the Bees isnt really awkward, except talking about that stuff with your parents. Most of the stuff is learned in school anyway, saving the parents the awkward silences and using "where do i come from?" as a guide.

If couples are having IVF treatment just to show that they are proud and are not actually thinking of the child, then i agree with you, they shouldnt have children at all. Children aren't toys. Though this is a gross generalisation.

One person would be able to have a child bar an illness. The other can't because it is impossible to do naturally. IVF should only be used as a method for those who previously would have been able to.
It isnt impossible to do it naturally, its actually very possible. Though that would mean having to have sexual intercourse with another person.
 

brittanica-

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So you wish that you were never born? Or just that you didnt have a very good childhood? The fact is that even though he is your parent, he can only do as much as he could do, not because he is male, but because of his personality, im guessing also having to support the family- limiting his time he could spend with you. With only one person raising a child it is hard, and you're lucky you didn't have any siblings.

Everyone would have to go through the same procedures to get the ok for IVF treatment. This is put in pace to ensure the child is raised in loving family.

Also, what are these insecurities, and how are they related to you being brought up by your father. How would it have been any different if your mother was there, or if you were brought up by a same-sex couple?

I'm sorry for being so harsh, but i too know what it is like being brought up in a single-parent family, especially when my we moved 4 hours away from my mum while i was still in year 4.


If you had read the whole of the thread, you would have found some answers.

It is easy to say that they would be bullied, ignoring the fact that it is others who are bullying them, because they view having two mothers or two fathers as strange. It is sending out the message that if someone is being picked on, then the person must have something wrong and they should be fixed- instead of dealing with the bully.

Birds and the Bees isnt really awkward, except talking about that stuff with your parents. Most of the stuff is learned in school anyway, saving the parents the awkward silences and using "where do i come from?" as a guide.

If couples are having IVF treatment just to show that they are proud and are not actually thinking of the child, then i agree with you, they shouldnt have children at all. Children aren't toys. Though this is a gross generalisation.


It isnt impossible to do it naturally, its actually very possible. Though that would mean having to have sexual intercourse with another person.

+1 touche!
 

kokodamonkey

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Here's my attempt at a "diplomatic" answer because i am "such a caring person"... How does this sound my lovelys.. We shouldn't be allowing IVF because there are so many kids in orphanages that need adopting!
 

Sprangler

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Here's my attempt at a "diplomatic" answer because i am "such a caring person"... How does this sound my lovelys.. We shouldn't be allowing IVF because there are so many kids in orphanages that need adopting!
Obvious troll, but brings up an interesting point. Can anyone actually bring up some Australian adoption statistics? e.g. How many parents are waiting, how many get them, how many kids are up for adoption in australia, etc.?

I've seen a lot of people in similar threads say exactly the opposite things regarding this, that either there are too many kids waiting, or not enough. I tried looking but couldn't find shit.
 
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As for the 'man/woman' thing, I'd like to see *any* family that isn't screwed up in some way...even if you have both genders of parents who are together, there's still going to be issues and things that you feel you've missed out on. It's just the nature of family. I have friends who are in that situation.

Every family combination will be a mixed bag. Personally, I've found my parents' divorce very hard in some ways, and I sometimes really wish I was just 'normal', hardly any of my friends have split up parents and I sometimes *do* feel I'm missing out. But, on the other hand, both my parents have met really great people who I feel lucky to have in my life, plus, I'm getting a step-sister, and I've always wanted a little sister! So every family has good and bad aspects...it'd be the same with kids who end up growing up in same-sex couples. We could say 'Oh, they should go with a straight couple', but there's going to be issues with that too. Bottom line is, if you stop people from having IVF/adopting 'cause you're trying to get the kid into a 'perfect' family, it's pointless.
 
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According to the American Psychological Association Policy Statement on Sexual Orientation, Parents, & Children, "there is no reliable evidence that homosexual orientation per se impairs psychological functioning. Second, beliefs that lesbian and gay adults are not fit parents have no empirical foundation."
What happens if children in gay and lesbian couple households can't be adopted (or the parents aren't granted legal custody)?

  • By banning gay adoption, children in gay couple households have no legal status should something happen to the parents, including death or serious illness.

  • Neither the parent or child has visitation rights if the parents separate.

  • The child cannot claim inheritances or other household assets in case of death.

  • If one parent dies, the second parent has no legal right to take custody or care for the child.

  • A parent without legal right to a child cannot legally register him/her for school.

  • Parents cannot put children on some health insurance plans.

  • Parents cannot make medical decisions for the child.

  • The child has no claim to the social security or other insurance benefits of the parent.

  • Gay couple parents without adoption rights do not benefit from the generous tax deductions granted to heterosexual parents.
Gay Adoption- What They Aren't Telling You About Gay Adoption
 

kokodamonkey

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Perfect reasons as to why they shouldn't be allowed to have kids..... coz then the kids have no rights!! ^^^^
 

Napstar

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Obvious troll, but brings up an interesting point. Can anyone actually bring up some Australian adoption statistics? e.g. How many parents are waiting, how many get them, how many kids are up for adoption in australia, etc.?

I've seen a lot of people in similar threads say exactly the opposite things regarding this, that either there are too many kids waiting, or not enough. I tried looking but couldn't find shit.
In Australia the rate of adoption is very low because the number of orphans is low and it's extremely hard to adopt an Australian orphan. Usually they go into foster care and are either adopted by their foster parents or remain orphaned.

Adopting from overseas is a long, arduous process. It can take years and is very expensive, upwards of 10k. I know a couple who spent 10 years trying to adopt, it just depends how well you jump through the loop holes.

But it's certainly not as easy as just going to an orphanage and picking out a kid and coming home, and a lot of people cannot afford 10-20k to adopt the child.
 

Garygaz

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AMA president Dr Andrew Pesce says gay people should not have IVF | Health & Lifestyle | News.com.au

This guy had it right until the bureaucrats made him back down from his comments.

Edit: Comment from article;

I know I'll probably be labelled as "discriminatory" and "out of touch", but I agree with Dr Pesce's comment. I think that if you're single and have decided that you want a child irrespective of whether you have a partner or not is irresponsible and selfish. If you're gay, you can't have children as it's not biologically possible to pocreate when it's two men or two women. If you're gay, that's your choice, but don't force society to accept your lifestyle and grant access to conceiving a baby. IVF was created for heterosexual couples who have gone through the heartache of trying to conceive over a number of years. Don't expect people to change their views just because certain individuals think about themselves and perceived "entitlements" before bringing a child into the world.
 
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S.H.O.D.A.N.

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Perfect reasons as to why they shouldn't be allowed to have kids..... coz then the kids have no rights!! ^^^^
Are you... retarded?

"Gay people shouldn't be allowed to have rights because if they did they wouldn't have rights" is basically what you just said.
 
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copkiller

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I know I'll probably be labelled as "discriminatory" and "out of touch", but I agree with Dr Pesce's comment. I think that if you're single and have decided that you want a child irrespective of whether you have a partner or not is irresponsible and selfish. If you're gay, you can't have children as it's not biologically possible to pocreate when it's two men or two women. If you're gay, that's your choice, but don't force society to accept your lifestyle and grant access to conceiving a baby. IVF was created for heterosexual couples who have gone through the heartache of trying to conceive over a number of years. Don't expect people to change their views just because certain individuals think about themselves and perceived "entitlements" before bringing a child into the world.
Haha. Unbelievable, he has flipped the whole thing around to say that gay people are forcing something on society by having IVF.

Gays having IVF does not use any force against anyone.

It is society that uses force to stop gay people having IVF if it has laws against it.
 

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