Can you be Christian, and support the existance of the state? (5 Viewers)

[Cookie182]

-God kills people in 1 Chronicles 21, Deuteronomy 3, Joshua 6, Judges 21, 2 Kings 10:18-27

Read up.

Good point. Christians CAN NOT ignore it.

Whilst Hitler certainly had a "warped Christianity", I am overwhelmingly convinced he was a Christian- he combined many concepts of Lutheran Christianity whilst rejecting some of the concepts of traditionalist Catholicism and incorporating wild ideas from Darwinian evolution, pseudo-science and the occult in order to form his own official "state stance" which essentially you would have been murdered if you publicly went against.

Apostasy in its finest.

 

[Cookie182]

I dont care to engage in that debate, nor does this thread. Certainly there were strong tones of paganism in Nazi ideology, but it essentially placed man above the idea of any god - much like you do cookie

What a stupid comment to an atheist.

There is no god to place above.

 

[Iron]

Which was my point

 

[Cookie182]

Which was my point

Its an empty statement.

Thats my point.

Either way, your very unchristian. No one with a different view can ever have a rational discussion with you without you getting wildly heated and abusive. At some point you curse and cry and then condemn us all..

Just accept your indoctrinated into a senseless, harsh reality which lost any respect in academic discussion over 200 yrs ago at the dawn of the age of the enlightenment.

 

[Iron]

lol because I found your assertion that Hitler was a Christian wildly offensive?

Grow a pair, sunshine

 

[dieburndie]

As a Christian I find it disturbing that all the anarchists on this site seem to be fanatical, militant atheists. Tbh, I would actually be quite worried about an anarcho-capitalist society populated by these sorts of morally vacuous nihilists. (Of course a democracy with the same demographics would be worse because they would use it to initiate force).

As I've expressed several times in other threads, inheriting a system of superstitious and arbitrary rules originating in religious doctrine does NOT make you morally superior to those who choose observation of the tangible occurrences in the world around them to form concepts of right and wrong.

Your absurd assumption that individuals who adopt a far more rational epistemological philosophy than yourself are immoral is absolutely laughable.

 

[Iron]

lol deude, it's zimmerman

 

[copkiller]

As I've expressed several times in other threads, inheriting a system of superstitious and arbitrary rules originating in religious doctrine does NOT make you morally superior to those who choose observation of the tangible occurrences in the world around them to form concepts of right and wrong.

Your absurd assumption that individuals who adopt a far more rational epistemological philosophy than yourself are immoral is absolutely laughable.

I'm not like Iron. I don't want to force my views on anyone. I believe people can even be moral without fully accepting religion, although it is rare.

But I have noticed that the few anarcho-capitalist on this site, particularly you, seem to have an arrogant disdain for all morality and harbor irrational and extreme contempt for religion.

The whole point of anarcho-capitalism is arguing that people have enough moral character to behave sensibly without a government. When people like you espouse anarcho-capitalist views its no wonder that many people are alarmed. You give the cause a bad name. It seems people like you just want anarcho-capitalism so you can make as much money as possible without the slightest conern for the poor, and use it to buy drugs and prostitutes.

 

[Iron]

I'm not like Iron. I don't want to force my views on anyone. I believe people can even be moral without fully accepting religion, although it is rare.

.

this is precisely my view m8

 

[copkiller]

this is precisely my view m8

Well then how can you support the state, which by definition forces particular views on people without their consent?

 

[dieburndie]

I'm not like Iron. I don't want to force my views on anyone. I believe people can even be moral without fully accepting religion, although it is rare.

But I have noticed that the few anarcho-capitalist on this site, particularly you, seem to have an arrogant disdain for all morality and harbor irrational and extreme contempt for religion.

The whole point of anarcho-capitalism is arguing that people have enough moral character to behave sensibly without a government. When people like you espouse anarcho-capitalist views its no wonder that many people are alarmed. You give the cause a bad name. It seems people like you just want anarcho-capitalism so you can make as much money as possible without the slightest conern for the poor, and use it to buy drugs and prostitutes.

You don't have even the slightest idea about my moral position.
Honestly, stop making shit up that you have no basis for believing whatsoever.

 

[copkiller]

You don't have even the slightest idea about my moral position.
Honestly, stop making shit up that you have no basis for believing whatsoever.

Mate I think its pretty obvious from your recent posts here that you are hostile towards Christianity.

So if Christian teachings that have worked well for centuries are to be rejected, what alternative moral code can you put forward to guide us? Especially since you reject the state, how then shall we ensure that people behave in a decent and civilized manner?

 

[Iron]

I couldnt give a wooden spoon if you consent or not. Christians inherently consent to secular government for the reasons outlined.

Christ is the sole and necessary mediator between government and the Creator

Government, like all created things, 'consists only in Jesus Christ', as the force stopping the wrath of God

The purpose of government is to serve Jesus Christ and it does this, whether it realises it or not

Christ is Lord of government as he possesses all power in heaven and on earth

Christ restored the relation bw government and God by the atonement on the cross

Also:
-The government of Pilot acknowledged and opendly declared the innocence of Christ, thus giving evidence of its proper character
-Christ was crucified with the permission of the government. This 'washing of the hands' was a faulty discharge of its office, not a condemnation of it
-Jesus submitted to government, but reminded government that its power is not human arbitrary will, but a 'gift from above' - thus showing that government can only serve Him. Both in acquitting Him of guilt and in delivering Him up to be crucifed, government was obliged to show that it stands in the service of Christ

So long as the earth continues, Jesus will always be both the Lord of all governments and Head of the Church, without government and the Church ever becoming one and the same; this union of state and Church will only be achieved in the heavenly polis state.

 

[copkiller]

Christ is the sole and necessary mediator between government and the Creator

Where in the bible does it say this?

There is no need for a mediator, Christ communicates directly with all those who accept Christ into their lives. The government is an unnecessary middleman which manipulates the word of god for its own benefit.

If consent doesn't matter, is it okay for governments to ban religion then?

 

[murphyad]

The Christian moral code isn't exactly unique to Christianity.

I'm a strong atheist, and I believe that 'thou shalt not kill', so to speak, more strongly than I suspect many Christians do.

Morals don't just vanish into thin air in the absence of religion.

 

[Iron]

Where in the bible does it say this?

There is no need for a mediator, Christ communicates directly with all those who accept Christ into their lives. The government is an unnecessary middleman which manipulates the word of god for its own benefit.

If consent doesn't matter, is it okay for governments to ban religion then?

Sometimes I think that you didnt even read my original posts
:
The role of the government is to maintain by the sword an outward justice in which life is preserved and is thus held open for Christ. If it is unwilling to accept this mission, then the suffering of the Church simply renders service to the witness of the name of Christ. Therefore government is unavoidably related to Christ. It cannot in ether case evade its task of serving Him. It serves Him by its very existence.

 

[copkiller]

The Christian moral code isn't exactly unique to Christianity.

I'm a strong atheist, and I believe that 'thou shalt not kill', so to speak, more strongly than I suspect many Christians do.

Morals don't just vanish into thin air in the absence of religion.

So how do you decide which morals to believe in.

Without the guidance of the bible an atheist could easily claim that their "personal" moral code states that they should rape children.

 

[copkiller]

Sometimes I think that you didnt even read my original posts

I read them, but they rarely make sense.

 

[murphyad]

So how do you decide which morals to believe in.

Personal discretion.

There are no absolute morals anyway. As an anarcho-capitalist who believes in the malleability of the human experience, you should agree with me on this one.

 

[copkiller]

Personal discretion.

i.e. you just make it up as you go along. You reject any higher source of morality to turn to for guidance. So as I said before, you could justify anything, even the most awful things imaginable as moral.