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Lentern

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Except he's really just arguing for the Coalition to be faithful to what they put forward in the last election...
And most of the party were probably unhappy about that but success breeds unity etc. I don't exactly see what you're disagreeing with; you seem to just be throwing in the point that the backbench is stocked with dopes which is fine but not really calling for the "except" preface.

BC you make a good point. Leading the liberal party before the next election would not fit in with all Costello's recent behaviour. I more meant he would likely disrupt an attempted second run at the leadership if Turnbull made one down the track.
 

Iron

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And most of the party were probably unhappy about that but success breeds unity etc. I don't exactly see what you're disagreeing with; you seem to just be throwing in the point that the backbench is stocked with dopes which is fine but not really calling for the "except" preface.
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The reality is that his success on the issue will be nothing more than a return to square one - not the miracle cure you gush about. He doesnt have much to lose anymore. His political career is likely over. Being the egoist he is, he might as well get a bit freaky and bring the temple down on his head if Abbott and Hockey are too gutless to stop him.
 

Lentern

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The reality is that his success on the issue will be nothing more than a return to square one - not the miracle cure you gush about. He doesnt have much to lose anymore. His political career is likely over. Being the egoist he is, he might as well get a bit freaky and bring the temple down on his head if Abbott and Hockey are too gutless to stop him.
What a fickle friend Iron can be, the man destined to be the nations savior is now Sampson about to bring the whole edifice crashing down.

The issue doesn't matter in itself. Anyone who cares enough about the environment for it to swing their vote will not vote liberal whatever they do. But if the troublemakers get their way then Turnbull has Buckley's chance of cultivating any trust from the electorate. Is a vote for the liberal party a vote for Turnbull or a vote for Tuckey and co.

If Turnbull from the outset had appeared decided on having no trading emission scheme than this wouldn't be an issue at least not amongst the dry liberals. But he did, his whole act was about being some urban, trendy, artsy progressive and it now looks like his party are trying to ban that.

I also love how you talk about guts, like it would be a perfectly sound and reasonable decision for Hockey, Abbott, Bishop, Dutton or Ruddock to challenge for the leadership now. As if the only thing preventing them from being glowing success' like Turnbull was going to be is their lack of ticker. Of course you were one of those who thought it would be a good idea for the liberals to make Turnbull leader back in December 2007.
 

Iron

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learn 2 written communication
 

Iron

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also transfer to canberra, fool.
I wish to make a proper Catholic intellect of you
 

Lentern

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learn 2 written communication
I was reminded of your sneers the other day when I got my assignment back and it read "Elegantly written and insightful, A pleasure to read. Thank you Nathan." Not three inches below the glowing praise had I written: "length: 1840 wofds."
 

S.H.O.D.A.N.

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Costello just quit parliament, forcing a by-election. That's two by-elections now. One because Rudd appointed Brendan Nelson as an ambassador for Australia, one because Costello decided to jump off a sinking ship.
 

Lentern

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Costello just quit parliament, forcing a by-election. That's two by-elections now. One because Rudd appointed Brendan Nelson as an ambassador for Australia, one because Costello decided to jump off a sinking ship.
Hmmph, it may be time to reconsider my longstanding prediction. I maintain that it was perfectly reasonable theory at the time and that Costello's behaviour since the 2007 election was suggestive of further parliamentary contributions to come. But Shodan, "jump off a sinking ship?" What kind of anaylsis is that? I think he must just really hate Turnbull, a nasty swing to the Greens(Labor wont run in Higgins will they?) would be quite embarrasing for Turnbull. Although Turnbull looks like he wouldn't mind someone rolling him at the moment anyway. It's also more than slightly possible Costello has lined up all his post parliamentary jobs and no longer needs his seat. But "jump off a sinking ship"? He didn't wake up one morning and decide "I don't think things are getting better anytime soon."
 

Iron

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His behaviour since 2007 was suggestive of the shallow spineless guy he has always been. He's soaked up as much limelight without doing anything that he can sustain
 

Lentern

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His behaviour since 2007 was suggestive of the shallow spineless guy he has always been. He's soaked up as much limelight without doing anything that he can sustain
Iron if Costello's parliamentary career could be described in one word it would be Christian. Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth. He trully believed that if he served loyally putting the careers of Howard and Downer before his own he would recieve what he deserved in the long run. Even after he was denied that he continued to follow Jesus' example, sacraficing his own political career so that Turnbull's might live. Unlike the hundred million dollar man(blessed are the poor anyone?) and potty mouth Abbott.
 

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Oh? Forcing an election over his seat now is serving the party? About a day after a 60:40 Labor WINSS poll? It's the only way he can still cause a splash and make people wonder 'what ifff'. He has the biggest most shameless ego in all of parliament, with only a bit of substance behind it
 

Lentern

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Oh? Forcing an election over his seat now is serving the party? About a day after a 60:40 Labor WINSS poll? It's the only way he can still cause a splash and make people wonder 'what ifff'. He has the biggest most shameless ego in all of parliament, with only a bit of substance behind it
In the past ten minutes I have decided that yes forcing the by-election will help the liberals. Clear the party of the old relics that really have no future, bring in some fresh, exciting new talent now so that they can familiarise themselves with the electorate and campaign for the federal party instead of having to worry about the individual constituencies at the next election. Like when the ALP drafted Dr Lawrence. By-elections may be a short term headache for Turnbull but will help the party in the general election.
 

Iron

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Lol doubt it. Look at all the gr8 talent Labor got in the last election. McKew for instance hasnt had a real chance to shine yet. They wouldnt draft a newbie into the shadow ministry and the vast majority of people will still be ignorant of them at the time of the election
 

Lentern

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Lol doubt it. Look at all the gr8 talent Labor got in the last election. McKew for instance hasnt had a real chance to shine yet. They wouldnt draft a newbie into the shadow ministry and the vast majority of people will still be ignorant of them at the time of the election



All very likely to contest the next federal election as ministers.
 

Iron

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After a full parliamentary term and not somewhere between tomorrow and next year... Face it Lentern! Your precious Stello is a self-serving, self-promoting, narcissistic slug
 

Lentern

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After a full parliamentary term and not somewhere between tomorrow and next year... Face it Lentern! Your precious Stello is a self-serving, self-promoting, narcissistic slug
It's only natural they would have to wait longer their party just won government! Whereas the liberal party mp pool has been slashed and half a dozen of the most senior and talented liberal mps from the previous parliament no longer have ministerial aspirations.

What possible good does it do the liberal party to have fresh, bright eyed candidates contesting seats in general elections against ALP candidates as opposed to entering through a by-election that the ALP wont contest, gaining some parliamentary experience in the lead up to the election and begining to develop a relationship with the electorate.
 

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I wouldnt even think that that matters. All people care about is the 2 major party leaders. We went presidential stylings long ago

The newbie is essentially some nobody that Stello decided to force upon Turnbull, at his weakest point, in a fundamentally nasty jab at his leadership
 
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whatashotbyseve

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All very likely to contest the next federal election as ministers.
The more union hacks the better! Any union representation will record a swing towards the Libs. The public despises union interference. Not enough for them to win mind, but enough to make it plausible in 2013-4.

End of an era with Costello. He will be missed.
 

Iron

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Any union representation will record a swing towards the Libs. The public despises union interference. .
Dumb thing to say. There's nothing wrong with unions and Australians know this. Union presence probably helped Labor more than the Liberals at the last election, given workchoices. Theyre at the core of the Australian story, really, fighting for a decent living wage for all. They are inherently good institutions - even noble.

The way that unions can potentially manipulate the ALP in quite srs undemocratic ways is a valid concern however, but we havent really seen any problem here under Rudd
 

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But Shodan, "jump off a sinking ship?" What kind of anaylsis is that?
The Nationals are openly contemplating ending the Coalition, The Liberals are openly criticising and plotting against their party leader, and most delusional of all, half of the Coalition thinks that the voters will reward them at an election for denying the existence of climate change and being obstructive on the issue - at a time when almost all businesses are acknowledging something needs to be done and flocking behind either Rudd or Turnbull's carbon reduction policies, along with an electorate in which 70% to 80% of voters support a carbon reduction policy (including a full half of all Coalition voters).

Not to mention the obvious: the global financial crisis and Australia's subsequent rapid recovery from it made an abject mockery of the Liberal party's claims that Labour would only lead us to financial ruin and tax hikes (Rudd actually lowered taxes).

Rudd is the only PM in history to achieve and sustain two years into his term the same record high approval rating he had when he became PM; every other PM has rapidly lost ground to the opposition, often such that the opposition becomes the preferred political party. Whether you attribute this to Rudd's success or the Coalition's failure is largely irrelevant; it's an ominous sign for the Coalition.

For reference, in the latest Newspoll, 31% of respondents would vote Liberal, while 46% would vote Labour. That's possibly one of the worst results in the Liberals's history. 4% would vote Nationals, 10% Greens. If an election were held today, Labour would have twice as many House seats as the Coalition, compared to just the 25% more it holds currently.

I'm not silly enough to assert that the Liberal party is extinct, but it's certainly evident that they've done permanent damage to their brand and ideology. The kind of damage that takes 3 or 4 lost elections in a row to repair.

And that even ignores the demographic crisis they face as they emulate their Republican counterparts in America: appealing more and more to the shrinking population of old white rural men as their opponents embrace the expanding pool of youth and immigrants.

I figured Turnbull might be someone to turn the Liberal party's fortunes around in the long-term, but now I don't think he'll survive long enough as leader to get a chance. And besides, he's too hotheaded.
 
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