Where do you stand? (5 Viewers)

[jennyfromdabloc]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Finally you realise not everything is black and white, nor does it need to be! Europe and Australia take the good parts of socialism and the good parts of capitalism. Kfunk and other 'lefties' such as myself are rarely ever uniform leftists. Most support things like free trade and (regulated) market economies, often strongly.

Some things are black and white. It's like saying "omg you're such an extremist because you believe that rape is always wrong. You're such a fundamentalist because you refuse to accept that rape can be a great idea when better minds than yours like clever scientists and sociologists calculate that it will be for the "greater good."

Violence is always wrong except in self defense. It is not, not, NOT, okay to kidnap people at gun point and lock them up because they don't want to co-operate with the mobs vision of how things should be run.

Places like Europe and Australia are positively post-scarcity compared to India or China, and where does a post-scarcity society leave capitalism?

Oh yay, we're post scarcity. I'll just go pick up 30 Ferrari's now. Hell, make it 30 000. Oh, you meant scarcity of "essential stuff" like food. Hey once we have those things there's no need to bother with making things more efficient so we can enjoy a better standard of living. Fuck you're dense.

 

[Lentern]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Yes you would almost certainly be happier if you were healthier, all else being equal.

But "all else" is not equal. To get better health you have to sacrifice things like time, money and short term pleasure.

How much of these things should you trade off for how much health?

I don't know. I still wouldn't know if I was a brilliant scientist and philosopher with a 3 PHDs, because I am not you.

You might not know to any certainty if you had a Phd in life but you would probably have a lot better idea than I would. Sadly there are ethical issues with cloning so we will probably never know.

So you've pointed out the obvious fact that people make mistakes. Nice work.

Guess what, the politicians and regulators also make mistakes. This pointing out of the friggin' obvious adds nothing to your case.

Mistakes? Hardly. These are not well meaning attempts gone wrong they are conscious decisions to induce the wrong consequence.

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Mistakes? Hardly. These are not well meaning attempts gone wrong they are conscious decisions to induce the wrong consequence.

I see. Well we should all take great comfort in knowing that the government is deliberately acting in bad faith.

 

[Lentern]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

I see. Well we should all take great comfort in knowing that the government is deliberately acting in bad faith.

Oh come now nobody thinks highly of you for pretending to misunderstand. I was not referring to the behaviour of the cream of our society but to your attempt to label the behaviour I previously spoke of as "mistakes".

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Mate, I honestly have no idea what you meant by that post and your attempt to clarify it has only confused me further.http://community.boredofstudies.org/4672999/post-126.html

You might not know to any certainty if you had a Phd in life but you would probably have a lot better idea than I would. Sadly there are ethical issues with cloning so we will probably never know.

This bit was even more obscure. It sounds like something Iron would say in one of his more deranged moods.

 

[loquasagacious]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

You might not know to any certainty if you had a Phd in life but you would probably have a lot better idea than I would. Sadly there are ethical issues with cloning so we will probably never know.

Hold on so what you're saying is that if Jenny had a PhD in life she would have a better idea than you about what would make you happy? Someone who had studied life would know you better than you knew yourself?

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Hold on so what you're saying is that if Jenny had a PhD in life she would have a better idea than you about what would make you happy? Someone who had studied life would know you better than you knew yourself?

Nah bro, I think he was alluding to some bizarre hypothetical involving comparing clones with PHD's to their non PHD counterparts.

 

[David Spade]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

why are you guys arguing with lentern, he is actually retarded

 

[ay0_x]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Dude just because someone doesn't have EVERYTHING they could ever want, it doesn't mean they're any less happier. Happiness =/= perfection.

Lentern you seem to have a pretty low opinion of your own knowledge & the validity of your opinion so I'm not going to argue with you any further. It's clear to me that you love government because you doubt your own ability to think for yourself. I don't mean this as a personal attack but it's something that's become evident through reading your posts here.

 

[loquasagacious]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

I'm just going to play the devils' advocate here. Someone put the argument to me like this: Since the state has to pay for your hospital bills when you get into a car accident, they have a mandate to make you wear seatbelts.

Should a libertarian oppose seatbelts (thus creating bad punlic policy) as a means to force the reduction of healthcare intervention? Try and force the failure of public policy in order to achieve longer term objectives?

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

I'm just going to play the devils' advocate here. Someone put the argument to me like this: Since the state has to pay for your hospital bills when you get into a car accident, they have a mandate to make you wear seatbelts.

Obviously I don't agree with public healthcare at all.

However, even if we assume the existence of a public health system, your objection is still easily overcome. If people willfully do certain dangerous things like riding without seat belts or take particular drugs, deny them coverage by the public health system.

 

[ay0_x]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Not to mention if that same state didn't tax me so heavily everytime I ate, pissed and shat, I would probably have more than enough money to cover my own hospital bills.

Jus' sayin.

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Not to mention if that same state didn't tax me so heavily everytime I ate, pissed and shat, I would probably have more than enough money to cover my own hospital bills.

Jus' sayin.

Not to mention the government driving up the cost of healthcare by making it free for people to drain healthcare resources for frivolous and un-necessary purposes, and by granting doctors carte blanche to deliberately limit the supply of doctors (especially surgeons and specialists) to drive up their own fees, and forcing people to see a doctor with a decade of training to get basic treatments which could easily be provided by a nurse or a pharmacist.

The government is very good at breaking your leg, then handing you a crutch and saying "hey you couldn't walk without the government's help," and people actually believe this shit because they are so used to it.

 

[ay0_x]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

And taxing doctors so heavily that they 1/ charge a lot of money and get taxed.. again or 2/ do it 'under the table' and risk having their credentials revoked.

The government's ability has indeed crippled people's desire to think for themselves.

 

[Lentern]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Hold on so what you're saying is that if Jenny had a PhD in life she would have a better idea than you about what would make you happy? Someone who had studied life would know you better than you knew yourself?

Yes

 

[ay0_x]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

nigger wot.

 

[Lentern]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Dude just because someone doesn't have EVERYTHING they could ever want, it doesn't mean they're any less happier. Happiness =/= perfection.

Lentern you seem to have a pretty low opinion of your own knowledge & the validity of your opinion so I'm not going to argue with you any further. It's clear to me that you love government because you doubt your own ability to think for yourself. I don't mean this as a personal attack but it's something that's become evident through reading your posts here.

It is not unreasonable to think that little old me with one 5th of a law degree and my HSC has less of an idea about like stuff in general than say Barry Jones.

 

[Lentern]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Mate, I honestly have no idea what you meant by that post and your attempt to clarify it has only confused me further.http://community.boredofstudies.org/4672999/post-126.html

I said quite a while ago people don't know what they want. And even if they did time and time again they make conscious decisions to act in a way that will induce the opposite consequence. You called these mistakes. They are not they are deliberate and intentional.

This bit was even more obscure. It sounds like something Iron would say in one of his more deranged moods

I probably would be happier, check that, people probably would be happier if really really clever and benevolent people placed massive restrictions on their lives for their own good. The only real way of ever knowing however would involve a lab rat style test on two clones which is of course unethical and therefore we shall not know.

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

I said quite a while ago people don't know what they want. And even if they did time and time again they make conscious decisions to act in a way that will induce the opposite consequence. You called these mistakes. They are not they are deliberate and intentional.

So you don't know what you really want, but some bureaucrat in Canberra does?

I probably would be happier, check that, people probably would be happier if really really clever and benevolent people placed massive restrictions on their lives for their own good. The only real way of ever knowing however would involve a lab rat style test on two clones which is of course unethical and therefore we shall not know.

But every person is an individual. What is good for you may be terrible for someone else. You've nitpicked at my posts, all the while ignoring the main point.

Different people like different things. Why do some like chocolate while others prefer vanilla? Why do some people enjoy extreme sports, while others prefer to curl up in bed with a good book? Who knows. The point is we are all different. These different preferences apply to health care just like anything else. As I said:

"To get better health you have to sacrifice things like time, money and short term pleasure.

How much of these things should you trade off for how much health?"

This will vary depending on the individual. No amount of study and education can make us an expert in determining other people's true preferences.

The only way what you said could possibly make any sense is not only if we assume that the regulators are 'clever and benevolent' (which is hugely unrealistic for a start) but that they have the time and resources to analyze the needs of each individual.

This is a bizarre, impossible fantasy that has no grounding in reality and is totally irrelevant to discussions about what the government should actually be doing.

Edit: I can already pre-emp your response which is some drivel along the lines of "but better health is almost universally preferred."

So what? This applies lots of things. People almost universally prefer leisure over work. Should we never do any work?

Of course not, because more lesuire, just like better health has an opportunity cost. It can be applied to almost anything. Scientists can tell us that Y is good. But Y always comes at a price. How much of X should we sacrifice for more Y. Only the individual can decide.

 

[HumanDichotomy]

Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Economic: -7.88
Authoritative: -4.87