I'm thinking about doing grad law... am I nuts? (1 Viewer)

danielvh

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Hey everyone,

I could do with advice and opinions on my situation. I'm considering doing post-grad law and think that this might just be a little nuts.

My background:

I graduate with a Bachelor of Economics from UWA mid-2010. I'd most likely be applying for the start of 2011 and would only really consider USyd or UMelb, with a preference probably for the latter. I have an HD average and considerable undergraduate experience (6 months over two internships in Management Consulting and currently finishing up an internship in Tax and Legal at PricewaterhouseCoopers).

I actually started out my uni career doing Law/Commerce at UWA but found I did not at all enjoy the law aspect of it (this is where the nuts part comes in). Looking back on it, I think it was due to two primary reasons; the first being that I did not (and still do not) like UWA, and the second being that I chose law at the time for all the wrong reasons. I had got into Medicine and at the last minute decided not to continue with it as I would have been doing it mainly because my parents wanted me to (my dad's a doctor). I did what seemed the obvious choice, and went with Law/Comm as the other of the prestigious degrees. For some reason, I went in with the idea that I wasn't doing Law to be a lawyer but rather because it was a "good degree" which taught you how to think and was valued by employers. This mindset led to me not enjoying it I believe.

The decision:

Now to explain why I want to study it now. Firstly, I recently came back from exchange at the University of Bristol where I stayed at a hall of residence and loved the student experience there. I suppose I feel like I've missed out by living at home and going to UWA. It's a little hard to admit it, but I guess I'd like another chance at the uni experience. Secondly, I've discovered an interest in the law while on my internship at PwC. What I've enjoyed most is the assignments where I've been given the task of researching some point of taxation law in an effort to advise a client. It's only a short step from here to seeing law as a valid choice. Finally, and I can't really quantify this, but it just feels right.

The way it would play out is that I would do a years worth of full-time work next year (I have only one unit left at uni next semester due to exchange messing around with my timetable) before starting and then study law. This would likely either be in Tax and Legal at PwC (if offered the position) or in management consulting. I feel that this background, along with my undergrad degree, would set me up to succeed in law school and hopefully end up with me working at a top tier law firm and so would hopefully not set me back too much in terms of time.

Thoughts?
 
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Yea take a look at the melb uni JD, with a HD in ugrad economics (did you do honors?) you'll be highly considered.
 

danielvh

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your a fool for not choosing medicine having got in. Its people like you who bar people who really want to do med from getting in. Only apply if you really want to do it. Having said that, who cares if your dads a doctor, why does that not make it right for you to also become one? Law isn't what it used to be, just have a look at the clerkships thread, there are plenty of good law students from sandstone unis that don't get picked for clerkships. I'd do some postgrad study in eco and get working. Law is something that can be a massive waste of time in undergrad level and even more so in graduate level because jobs are not guaranteed like medicine.

with your experience at PWC your well set for a job in business stick to it and prosper.
Didn't really like your tone in this post. I didn't at all deprive someone of a spot in med. I didn't start it and the position would have been given to someone during the 2nd round offers. I also did not list my dad being a doctor as a reason why I didn't do it, but simply as the reason why I did do it (which I decided wasn't a good enough one and so didn't go into Med).

But saying that, I do respect your point about the risks in doing law. What plays strongly on my mind is that I'll decide I don't want to do it (despite being fairly sure at the moment), and obviously that entry into the profession is not at all guaranteed or easy.

The safe option is no doubt to start my career in business and get on with it. I guess I'm just afraid I'll have 'what if' feelings later.

And to respond to ComingUpForAir: no honours as of yet. That's option 3 (with options 1 and 2 being law and starting my career in business). I'm considering applying for honours in economics to start in 2011 at UMelb, USyd or ANU.
 

flamearrows

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(6 months over two internships in Management Consulting and currently finishing up an internship in Tax and Legal at PricewaterhouseCoopers).
Pardon me, but I highly doubt you did two internships in management consulting.
 

danielvh

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Pardon me, but I highly doubt you did two internships in management consulting.
A reasonable doubt. It was for the same company if that clears it up at all. (ie I did 3 months before going on exchange to the UK and then 3 months 3 days a week during this most recent semester.
 

flamearrows

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A reasonable doubt. It was for the same company if that clears it up at all. (ie I did 3 months before going on exchange to the UK and then 3 months 3 days a week during this most recent semester.
I'm a bit leery about the use of the term management consulting. So far as I can tell, there's very few firms which actually are management consultants in the way most people would recognise the term - e.g. BCG, Bain and McKinnsey. These firms, needless to say, don't offer internships.

If you've got a job with PwC in their business consulting arm, or could get a job there, then I'd either stay there or try and grab a gig with a higher-tier consulting firm. The law isn't that attractive as a career choice at the moment - read firmspy.com if you're curious about the state of the industry.
 

danielvh

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I'm a bit leery about the use of the term management consulting. So far as I can tell, there's very few firms which actually are management consultants in the way most people would recognise the term - e.g. BCG, Bain and McKinnsey. These firms, needless to say, don't offer internships.

If you've got a job with PwC in their business consulting arm, or could get a job there, then I'd either stay there or try and grab a gig with a higher-tier consulting firm. The law isn't that attractive as a career choice at the moment - read firmspy.com if you're curious about the state of the industry.
Fair enough. I admit that the firm I worked at wasn't in the league of McKinsey etc. I'm not sure those firms even offer undergraduate internships in Australia, and if they do, there are very limited places. However, it's decent and its management are all made up of ex-Bain guys.

Cheers for the info. I'll have a read up on firmspy now
 

Omnidragon

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There're other good consulting firms like AT Kearney, Accenture, LEK. That said McKinsey/BCG/Bain isn't as hot as it's made out to be. Got several friends in BCG and what can I say?

Travel heaps, never home, work late (ie constantly past 11), low pay (something like 70k 1st yr), monkeying around on powerpoint. Top tier law pays around 65k 1st yr, so I'd consider it more or less the same as consulting but you can get away with working less in certain teams. As you move up to senior management in BCG you get to say 150k and then eventually to like 200kish as a director - on par with a senior associate in law only.

So if law is to arts, consulting is to arts too ^_^

Basically most corporate jobs are immensely overrated. You should've been a dentist.
 

flamearrows

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You don't have any friends working at BCG because those salary figures are way off.
 

Omnidragon

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You don't have any friends working at BCG because those salary figures are way off.
I was talking about consulting generally, that said I do know what miserable pay BCG gives.

Do I really need some final year to lecture me? Good luck at job interviews kiddo
 

Domm

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OP: if you like law do it. If you don't, don't. Why is there is so much baggage to the story?

For me: got an undergrad degree, got a job, worked for a while, wanted to law, doing grad law.

The fact that the big unis are moving to grad law now means something yea? Undergrad law is on the way out. Embrace your academic fogeyhood and just do it if that's what you want to do.
 

flamearrows

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I was talking about consulting generally, that said I do know what miserable pay BCG gives.

Do I really need some final year to lecture me? Good luck at job interviews kiddo
Son, if I were still having job interviews, how would I know what the salary was like?
 

UAI30orless

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Not sure if a law degree is ideal for someone who wants to enjoy the university life.

No harm in trying though.
 

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