Welfare system reform. (2 Viewers)

[FabricLive]

Jump to 16 minutes in to see "The Broken Window Fallacy". That's the beginning.

 

[SylviaB]

Thanks, but I'm downloading the youtube video right now. I'll have to wait.

you know you can click on a later part of the video and it will start loading from there right

 

[FabricLive]

Sylvester - actually give your dad a copy of economics in one lesson, it might make him turn around on a few things.

Has made a lot of statist THUGS I know turn into cool Libertarian dudes and dudettes.

~cult~

 

[FabricLive]

Also congrats on doing the patriotic degree of engineering, that is filled with libertarians and freedom lovers everywhere

~ en g i n ee r s ~

 

[SylviaB]

yeah, that's probably not a bad idea

even though he's a cop and hence inherently statist, he's not that bad

like I've managed to convince him that government is stupid, welfare is retarded and that we should have a flat tax etc.

I think I'll never get him to see the light on things like drugs or guns tho because its so entrenched in him that they're bad

Also congrats on doing the patriotic degree of engineering, that is filled with libertarians and freedom lovers everywhere

well that's awesome. I certainly noticed on bos all the cool libertarians tend to be engineers so i hope its the same at rmit

however, overall in terms of freedom loving ppl, its gonna be shit. i dont know if you know about rmit, its got really good engineering courses, but it has fucking shit loads of left wing arts fags

they even have multiple social clubs like "socialist alternative" and whatever, so im a little worried that some cunt giving out pamphlets about the evils of capitalism is gonna piss me off and im gonna hit him and get kicked out

but nah it will be good

 

[FabricLive]

You get a few freebie hits of socialists a year

I always argue with them and then troll them about how we should harvest the third world's organs and make mandatory taxes exist to pay money to corporations to increase that shit or some SHIT.

UTS was like that, so I transferred to UNSW which is ~liberty university~

Except for all the ~christfags~

 

[HumanDichotomy]

Imo, we should support people using the principle:

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Evidently, it's not as simplistic as that, but you get the point. We should be spending the money that's currently provided to those on welfare on providing them with better skills to get by on their own, rather than perpetuating the cycle of reliance on the state which so often runs through generations.

 

[SylviaB]

yeah im going to transfer to unsw after a couple years probably/hopefully :uhhuh:

when i'm magically able to afford to live in sydney -_-

Imo, we should support people using the principle:
Evidently, it's not as simplistic as that, but you get the point. We should be spending the money that's currently provided to those on welfare on providing them with better skills to get by on their own, rather than perpetuating the cycle of reliance on the state which so often runs through generations.

yeah that sounds good and all but it doesn't really work

the left have this romanticised image of the poor as noble, hard working people who were just never given a chance, and who don't want to accept welfare paymetns but they have no other option


when in reality many programs exist to help the poor get jobs and get skills and "teach them how to fish", but they really don't work coz they really aren't interested in learning

based on my mums centerlink experiences


like I'm sure they've helped a lot of ppl before blah blah but it will never really solve anything on a large scale

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

I didn't even mention the involvement of transfer payments, and obviously that conflicts with my main point that they are almost always ineffective and commonly abused

You said yourself "It was a suggested example of an alternative way the government could provide food/clothing etc to the poor, not a comprehensive replacement system" when I pointed out that it could not be used to help people pay rent and bills.

Without providing for other necessities like rent your idea is not particularly sell-able to the electorate which was the whole point of coming up with something other than just "end welfare."

Private charities very rarely turn ordinary individuals away, in fact many (often religious), have specific policies against doing so. For anyone with the will to abuse the services of charities, it is a straightforward task.

There are probably already several churches around your area that have dedicated free meals, and also would organise a food parcel for you if you asked.

Most people will pay for choice, quality and variety. Many also do not want to appear poor..

Yes but right now very few people actually depend on private charity for food, its basically just for homeless people that aren't on welfare getting a few meals.

If this was the main welfare system (replacing payments), and outlets where you could pick up a weeks worth of groceries (not just a meal) for free were widely distributed, of course people would take advantage.

As you say, you could probably get a food hamper from a local charity, but you would have to go in and talk to them and explain your situation. If this becomes a regular thing for hundreds of thousands of people, obviously this can no longer be a requirement (or it would be very expensive), so in effect the food stations would just become like free supermarkets.

If you were to give out fixed packages (i.e. to limit people's choice and make it less attractive to rort) it would also make it much less popular, and would be seen as unfair to the poor. You'd also have a huge problem with people with special dietary requirements.

You've also ignored my most important point:

replacing money with goods does not change the basic problem of welfare, because goods can always be converted to money.

 

[badquinton304]

[youtube]VD28vNVovow[/youtube]

Dammit I +ve repped you by accident.

 

[SylviaB]

Dammit I +ve repped you by accident.

wat

 

[jb_nc]

personally, i cant wait to watch that 3 hour and 30 minute video. im just cooking up some popcorn while its loading a bit

 

[Planck]

Dammit I +ve repped you by accident.

go fuck yourself, trot

@Jb_nc - I know man!

 

[Riet]

You get a few freebie hits of socialists a year

I always argue with them and then troll them about how we should harvest the third world's organs and make mandatory taxes exist to pay money to corporations to increase that shit or some SHIT.

UTS was like that, so I transferred to UNSW which is ~liberty university~

Except for all the ~christfags~

Yesterday when I was walking down to unibar there were some conservationists but they were also blatant lefties and she asked me what degree I was doing and I said "Mining Engineering" and she realised her efforts were futile.

 

[Graney]

[youtube]VD28vNVovow[/youtube]

I found it very difficult to masturbate to this.