Confused about the whole ranking thing.. (1 Viewer)

[marlow415]

Everyone keeps saying the importance of ranks so I have a question.

If someone at a school ranked 300th came 2nd in lets say, 3u math with a mark of 62% would they end up with a higher or lower internal mark than someone at a school ranked about the same got 83% but came 6th? Everyone keeps saying marks don't matter, ranks do so I just wanted some clarification

 

[deswa1]

- Everyone gets internal marks and ranks submitted to the BOS.
- Everyone sits the external HSC exam
- You keep your own external mark
- Internal marks are then moderated based on how well your cohort does in the external. In this sense, whether you get 80% or 20% is irrelevant. The guys that's ranked first will get the top external mark as his internal, the guy ranked last will get the bottom external mark as the internal and for everyone else, they look at the relative mark difference between the ranks.

Conclusion: Ranks matter however the mark difference between ranks also plays a part. In your example, the guy ranked 2nd will do better.

 

[enoilgam]

- Everyone gets internal marks and ranks submitted to the BOS.
- Everyone sits the external HSC exam
- You keep your own external mark
- Internal marks are then moderated based on how well your cohort does in the external. In this sense, whether you get 80% or 20% is irrelevant. The guys that's ranked first will get the top external mark as his internal, the guy ranked last will get the bottom external mark as the internal and for everyone else, they look at the relative mark difference between the ranks.

Conclusion: Ranks matter however the mark difference between ranks also plays a part. In your example, the guy ranked 2nd will do better.

This pretty much. Just extending on from it, the reason why raw internal marks dont mean much (apart from the gaps), is because the internal marks will be pegged to a cohorts external marks. For example, if the highest external mark from a cohort is 90 and the lowest is 60, then the final internal marks will range from 60-90.

 

[D94]

Conclusion: Ranks matter however the mark difference between ranks also plays a part. In your example, the guy ranked 2nd will do better.

That's impossible to determine without sitting the HSC. It's not even something you can even speculate about, without being misleading.

Ranks and performance between different schools are impossible to compare until you've sat the HSC, but by that stage, it wouldn't matter because there'd be nothing you can do about it.

What does matter, is you and your cohort doing well collectively in the HSC. Theoretically, it's possible to come last in all your subjects and get Band 6's for everything, a 95+ ATAR etc.

 

[deswa1]

Sorry, I should have made my point clearer. What I was saying is that if both schools got the exact same performance externally and they both performed the same externally, the guy ranked 2nd would do better in spite of the fact that he got a lower internal mark.

 

[marlow415]

So when it comes to your HSC the internal marks that you get are actually marks from the external exams just moderated and all that? Your actual assessment mark itself does not matter?

If someone came 3rd and got 92% on his external, the highest in his class, the 3rd highest external (84% for example) would become his internal and his external will become the person ranked 1's internal?

Also what do you mean by "and for everyone else, they look at the relative mark difference between the ranks." like could i get a rough example or something?

Sorry just having that freak out moment and really wanted some straight answers to clarify all the rumors

 

[D94]

So when it comes to your HSC the internal marks that you get are actually marks from the external exams just moderated and all that? Your actual assessment mark itself does not matter?

Yes and no. They are determined by both your HSC marks and your raw marks. What happens is BOS calculates the mean/average of your raw marks, then they calculate the mean of your HSC marks. The highest HSC exam mark becomes the mark of the first ranked person's assessment mark, and the lowest exam mark becomes the mark of the last ranked person's assessment mark. Then, the means are aligned and then how ever much you deviate from the mean in your raw marks, is used to determine the HSC mark for which ever rank. This means you should do as good as possible, and stay close to ranked 1 as possible.

I'm sure that made no sense to you.

If someone came 3rd and got 92% on his external, the highest in his class, the 3rd highest external (84% for example) would become his internal and his external will become the person ranked 1's internal?

No. There isn't any switching of marks. From what I said above, it's how much you deviate from the mean, which is used to calculate the moderated assessment mark.

Also what do you mean by "and for everyone else, they look at the relative mark difference between the ranks." like could i get a rough example or something?

Sorry just having that freak out moment and really wanted some straight answers to clarify all the rumors

 

[cem]

So when it comes to your HSC the internal marks that you get are actually marks from the external exams just moderated and all that? Your actual assessment mark itself does not matter?

The mark matters as it sets the gaps between you and the students in your cohort and that gap matters.

If someone came 3rd and got 92% on his external, the highest in his class, the 3rd highest external (84% for example) would become his internal and his external will become the person ranked 1's internal?

NO - it isn't a simple process of matching the internals to the externals. Say for instance that your 3rd ranked student was one mark behind 2nd and 3 marks behind 1st in school assessments to have them then end up with a moderated assessment mark of 8 marks difference would be unfair. As far as possible they kepp the gaps similar to those that the school sent in and as the school's marks usually are of a larger range than the aligned exam marks it is normal for the internal marks to be closer than those sent in by the school.

Also what do you mean by "and for everyone else, they look at the relative mark difference between the ranks." like could i get a rough example or something?

If a school sends in marks like 98, 96, 94, 89 and 88 and then in the exam the students get 99,97,96, 94, and 88 then the range for the internal marks will be from 99 - 88 just as the exam's range was. Now if you look at the 5th ranked student there is a 5 mark difference between 3rd and 4th and then one mark back to fifth. That gap also needs to be maintained in the assessment marks so the assessment marks would look more like 99, 97, 95, 90, and 88. So 4th would get a final mark of (94 (exam) + 90 (assessment))/2=92 (HSC).

Sorry just having that freak out moment and really wanted some straight answers to clarify all the rumors

Stop worrying - study hard, do the absolute best you can, encourage your cohort to do the best they can and the rest will take care of itself.

 

[marlow415]

Thanks so much guys so your cohort affects you due to the gaps but if your near the top your moderated mark will still remain close to the others at the top.. So the school rank thing is just what people use to get an idea of your cohort but really your school might be ranked low but if only 3 people do MX2 and you come last but still within a few marks of the person who comes first your mark will still remain close to theirs and you won't be condemned for coming last at a school ranked 300