People don't know HOW to learn. (2 Viewers)

[Sy123]

The fundamental reason why people study so much unnecessarily is because they don't know how to learn properly. I don't mean just rote learning but rather attaining knowledge, people don't know how to do so and must therefore compensate by studying much harder.

Discuss

 

[asianese]

So how does one 'learn properly'?

How do a class of gifted students 'learn' from a teacher who doesn't even care about explaining how to approach a harder 3u projectiles motion question? How does a willing class of students learn anything about the rubbish that is emitting from the mouth of a fresh uni-grad about how a graviton is a higgs-boson?

My point is that many students do not have the 'ideal' learning environment in schools in which to learn their material properly. Sometimes they don't have a choice. HENCE, due to the fact that their school environment isn't providing them with an adequate learning circumstance with passionate teachers, they must compensate by studying much harder.

Or perhaps some don't learn well in big groups and prefer to absorb material on their own? Or perhaps magic mike over there can't stop talking to his female friends about the weekend, and poor Jenny over there is struggling to absorb all the stuff that her passionate teacher is saying.

Also I would say 16 hours a day is 'unnecessary'.

(This isn't a personal attack, just throwing ideas out there.)

 

[SpiralFlex]

Example student doing repetitive maths questions with the same method won't nearly get as far as those who do non-generic problem sets and can apply their knowledge rather than following a generic textbook method.

So how does one 'learn properly'?

How do a class of gifted students 'learn' from a teacher who doesn't even care about explaining how to approach a harder 3u projectiles motion question? How does a willing class of students learn anything about the rubbish that is emitting from the mouth of a fresh uni-grad about how a graviton is a higgs-boson?

My point is that many students do not have the 'ideal' learning environment in schools in which to learn their material properly. Sometimes they don't have a choice. HENCE, due to the fact that their school environment isn't providing them with an adequate learning circumstance with passionate teachers, they must compensate by studying much harder.

Or perhaps some don't learn well in big groups and prefer to absorb material on their own? Or perhaps magic mike over there can't stop talking to his female friends about the weekend, and poor Jenny over there is struggling to absorb all the stuff that her passionate teacher is saying.

Also I would say 16 hours a day is 'unnecessary'.

(This isn't a personal attack, just throwing ideas out there.)

You raise a very good point. Could you elaborate on what you mean by they don't have a choice?

 

[Sy123]

So how does one 'learn properly?

1) 100% attention given to a willing teacher at all times
2) Be able to evaluate the information recieved and how it relates to previous bits of information
3) Ask constructive questions as much as possible - note the word constructive here, we don't ask questions to find flaws but rather to learn.

Revise at home what was learnt during the day, for only a max of 1 hour depending on content size (usually I would say 20-30 min) (each subject)

Many people don't fulfill 1, 2 or 3.

 

[Sy123]

So how does one 'learn properly'?

How do a class of gifted students 'learn' from a teacher who doesn't even care about explaining how to approach a harder 3u projectiles motion question? How does a willing class of students learn anything about the rubbish that is emitting from the mouth of a fresh uni-grad about how a graviton is a higgs-boson?

My point is that many students do not have the 'ideal' learning environment in schools in which to learn their material properly. Sometimes they don't have a choice. HENCE, due to the fact that their school environment isn't providing them with an adequate learning circumstance with passionate teachers, they must compensate by studying much harder.

Or perhaps some don't learn well in big groups and prefer to absorb material on their own? Or perhaps magic mike over there can't stop talking to his female friends about the weekend, and poor Jenny over there is struggling to absorb all the stuff that her passionate teacher is saying.

Also I would say 16 hours a day is 'unnecessary'.

(This isn't a personal attack, just throwing ideas out there.)

I would say that 80% of learning is up to the student.

When I say the above, I only mean it that the teacher is adequate enough, if a teacher is inadequate that is the only time where I would recommend a tutor. (no point otherwise)

In the end most of learning is up to the student and if the student doesn't know how to learn who is to blame?
Look at a lot of the kids in selective schools, I am willing to bet that they have pretty good teachers there, yet they feel the need to study unnecessarily because they don't use their teacher properly?

Yes some people don't learn good in big groups, but the student needs to live with it and adapt their learning. A big or small class really doesn't have too much of an effect (it really doesn't if you are willing to learn properly)

And I don't study anywhere near 16 hours a day.....it was a joke.

 

[SpiralFlex]

1) 100% attention given to a willing teacher at all times
2) Be able to evaluate the information recieved and how it relates to previous bits of information
3) Ask constructive questions as much as possible - note the word constructive here, we don't ask questions to find flaws but rather to learn.

Revise at home what was learnt during the day, for only a max of 1 hour depending on content size (usually I would say 20-30 min) (each subject)

Many people don't fulfill 1, 2 or 3.

Point 1 - Often teachers misguide students.

 

[enoilgam]

I think Sy has a point, a lot of times people overwork themselves with study because they dont learn properly. But you also have to consider that everyone is different - some people take a lot longer to learn concepts than others, even if they do know how to study properly. Plus, having a bad teacher can force you to do more work at home etc.

I have more to say on this, but I will contribute it as the discussion continues, as opposed to putting it in one post.

 

[Sy123]

Point 1 - Often teachers misguide students.

See above, I am assuming the students have adequate teachers which in most cases they would. If not they can get a tutor.

 

[enoilgam]

See above, I am assuming the students have adequate teachers which in most cases they would. If not they can get a tutor.

Sometimes, you can trust a teacher who is misleading you. For example, with many essay writing subjects, some teachers dont know how to properly mark essays. In this situation, a student may be misguided on how to write an essay from a teacher they trust.

 

[sinawi]

What constitutes 'learning' before we can even say one is doing it properly? Perhaps people study so much because it is their only way of learning properly.

 

[LoveHateSchool]

I will agree with Sy that some people seem to attack a lack of conceptual understanding and linking things together, by attacking everything with a rote learning approach. They don't look for how things relate to each other, how they differ, ask constructive questions (say, asking if the process occurs like this one, or differs how, relating to past learning). I'd say that kind of active learning some people lack, and often it's because they don't know how to approach information or concepts in a way tailored to their learning style. You can see this concept demonstrated by two phenomena;

A) An active learning, naturally intelligent student may not have to study much but gets great results.
B) A student with non tailored learning standards who is not as naturally intelligent may rote for hours and may get average HSC results. This often ties in with them not having the skills to adapt their knowledge to new situation's demands.

In some ways, I think the HSC is overhyped in that, instead of students being comfortable in their knowledge, they will continue to study concepts they already have well down pat-just from that pressure to study in massive quantity and study as much as others. Students who have their tailored active learning and INDEPENDENT way of absorbing knowledge tend to cope better in uni imho.

Point 1 - Often teachers misguide students.

Yeah this can occur. Students can be misled by getting great marks in assessments and that all year, but may not be taught the proper way to approach the HSC questions and then bam, they will get all get external marks way under what they were getting internally.

See above, I am assuming the students have adequate teachers which in most cases they would. If not they can get a tutor.

Don't think tutors are bandaid solutions-the foundations and thrust for learning come from the student themselves. Tutors can also be misleading as a few teachers can be. Finding good quality tutors can be particularly hard if you live in a rural setting too.

 

[Spiritual Being]

I know its the HSC but legit I'm not even studying. I just finish homework and then do whatever I want. Hopefully I can keep up my 90+ streak in the half yearlies.

Sometimes, you can trust a teacher who is misleading you. For example, with many essay writing subjects, some teachers dont know how to properly mark essays. In this situation, a student may be misguided on how to write an essay from a teacher they trust.

This is exactly what happens in English. Its all a baseless opinionated view that differs from teacher to teacher. I have to adjust my writing style depending on which teacher is going to mark it or else they will fabricate a generic justification for why I lost 1-2 marks (hypothetically) and students that write absolute shit and lack a sustained thesis - 15/15.

I'm also informed that an increasing amount of schools are espousing the 'student number' approach to assignments. This is a process whereby a student writes their student number on their work so the teacher "doesn't know who's assignment it belongs to" when really the database that matches the number to a name is on the teachers laptop. Accessibility to this student database inherits bias but conveniently, this database exhibits the maximisation of accessibility. This is in reference to essay writing subjects whether HSIE or English etc

Yes, I'm implying that the system is fundamentally unfair, albeit the bias marking doesn't happen to me (mostly).

In fact, I'm in English right now and I could not care less about what the teacher has to say because with her teaching style, I dare say that it poses a disadvantage to the students. I teach myself English with the help of a few people from this site (on occasion), and SanjoyM mostly. As you can see, I'm at a disadvantage and I'm sure many other people in the state are at a disadvantage due to arduous and outright stupid teaching styles and this reinforces why the system is unfair. There are good teachers out there and thus this puts those students at a better advantage than not so good teachers.

 

[Drifting95]

I know its the HSC but legit I'm not even studying. I just finish homework and then do whatever I want. Hopefully I can keep up my 90+ streak in the half yearlies.

This is exactly what happens in English. Its all a baseless opinionated view that differs from teacher to teacher. I have to adjust my writing style depending on which teacher is going to mark it or else they will fabricate a generic justification for why I lost 1-2 marks (hypothetically) and students that write absolute shit and lack a sustained thesis - 15/15.


I'm also informed that an increasing amount of schools are espousing the 'student number' approach to assignments. This is a process whereby a student writes their student number on their work so the teacher "doesn't know who's assignment it belongs to" when really the database that matches the number to a name is on the teachers laptop. Accessibility to this student database inherits bias but conveniently, this database exhibits the maximisation of accessibility. This is in reference to essay writing subjects whether HSIE or English etc

Yes, I'm implying that the system is fundamentally unfair, albeit the bias marking doesn't happen to me (mostly).

In fact, I'm in English right now and I could not care less about what the teacher has to say because with her teaching style, I dare say that it poses a disadvantage to the students. I teach myself English with the help of a few people from this site (on occasion), and SanjoyM mostly. As you can see, I'm at a disadvantage and I'm sure many other people in the state are at a disadvantage due to arduous and outright stupid teaching styles and this reinforces why the system is unfair because there are good teachers out there.

Agree, this teacher is full of shit. English is just biased marked.

 

[girlworld_club]

i once had a teacher who told me to stop asking stupid questions. lawl.

 

[Sy123]

Sometimes, you can trust a teacher who is misleading you. For example, with many essay writing subjects, some teachers dont know how to properly mark essays. In this situation, a student may be misguided on how to write an essay from a teacher they trust.

Definitely, in general however I still think that even under adequate teaching which indeed a lot of selective schools do have, the students still study way too much.

What constitutes 'learning' before we can even say one is doing it properly? Perhaps people study so much because it is their only way of learning properly.

Learning is nothing philosophical or anything - it has a pretty clear definition and I hoped no-one would ask this for the sake of it.

Learning constitutes as the acquirement of academia by fully understanding concepts.
Something a lot of people don't do.

 

[sinawi]

Learning constitutes as the acquirement of academia by fully understanding concepts.
Something a lot of people don't do.

Well say a kid spent 30 minutes and fully understood a few concepts. What if he/she was to spend another 15-20 minutes on those concepts simply applying them to various situations and perspectives as mental 'exercise', and repeated this process per concept per subject? You could say that this 15-20 minutes isn't necessary because if you understood the concept in the first place you wouldn't need to do the constant mental applications, but let's not be outlandish and say that this 15-20 minutes isn't extremely useful altogether. He or she would have been certainly been studying for a couple of hours at least, and would have the comprehensive understanding of the concept, and a few hours of study/training to back themselves up for exam security and self-assurance.

This is perhaps an example of a rare student, granted, but one who would study an adequate amount of hours in a night and would still by your definition (as far as i can see) learning. This is what I meant by "Study so much = learn properly" in those rare cases.

 

[Sy123]

Well say a kid spent 30 minutes and fully understood a few concepts. What if he/she was to spend another 15-20 minutes on those concepts simply applying them to various situations and perspectives as mental 'exercise', and repeated this process per concept per subject? You could say that this 15-20 minutes isn't necessary because if you understood the concept in the first place you wouldn't need to do the constant mental applications, but let's not be outlandish and say that this 15-20 minutes isn't extremely useful altogether. He or she would have been certainly been studying for a couple of hours at least, and would have the comprehensive understanding of the concept, and a few hours of study/training to back themselves up for exam security and self-assurance.

This is perhaps an example of a rare student, granted, but one who would study an adequate amount of hours in a night and would still by your definition (as far as i can see) learning. This is what I meant by "Study so much = learn properly" in those rare cases.

Definitely, those 15-20 minutes extra for each subject (after an initial 15-20 min) would be beneficial in some cases and it still falls under the 1 hour maximum that I proposed.

But the thing is, some people study way more for each subject, and after lets say 40 minutes it becomes a bit too much and starts to lose the effect, and even then 40 minutes is a lot for simply revising over content each day. Because most of the understanding should be done in class, and revised over at home to not forget your understanding.

 

[Spiritual Being]

Definitely, those 15-20 minutes extra for each subject (after an initial 15-20 min) would be beneficial in some cases and it still falls under the 1 hour maximum that I proposed.

But the thing is, some people study way more for each subject, and after lets say 40 minutes it becomes a bit too much and starts to lose the effect, and even then 40 minutes is a lot for simply revising over content each day. Because most of the understanding should be done in class, and revised over at home to not forget your understanding.

Yes, understanding should transpire in class. However, how are you supposed to understand when you have a teacher who themselves cannot understand what they are teaching?

 

[starshine02]

1) 100% attention given to a willing teacher at all times
2) Be able to evaluate the information recieved and how it relates to previous bits of information
3) Ask constructive questions as much as possible - note the word constructive here, we don't ask questions to find flaws but rather to learn.

Revise at home what was learnt during the day, for only a max of 1 hour depending on content size (usually I would say 20-30 min) (each subject)

Many people don't fulfill 1, 2 or 3.

This only works in an ideal situation where the teacher is able to give the student exactly the amount/style of information that suits the student. I think the student will have to have to understand the content taught in class fully as well. Also, areas of memorisation will often require more time depending on the student themselves.

But I'd say that a maximum average of 1 hour per subject per night is actually quite reasonable for studying efficiently because most days students won't study every subject anyways. I think revision and practise at home is actually quite important as it helps consolidate the content learnt at school so it's alright to spend more than 1 hour on it too. So even in the situation that a student is able to fufill the three points, they may still need to spend more time at home going over the work.

 

[sinawi]

At the end of the day, an hour a night per subject, (perhaps 1-3 subjects per night depending on the work load) is optimal on a normal week. Come exam week, that's anyone's guess really.