Sooo.. is your rank more important or your mark? (1 Viewer)

YOLO_SWAYG

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I've been hearing people say your rank is more important in the course than your actual mark. Can someone clarify if this is wrong or right? How does it affect your scaling or how well you do?
 

simplyinsanity

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That is correct.

If you are ranked first internally, you will get the highest external mark (as your school mark) even if during the year, you were scoring say in the 50s
 

nerdasdasd

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The rank is definitely more important . It determines how you will be scaled .

Though you should be aiming to get a high mark in all your exams and assessments .
 

obliviousninja

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Actual mark may be not a good representation, ie assessments/trials may have been hard.
In terms of ranking, for example
School rankings:
1) John
2) Bob
3) Sam
4) Tim
Say you were Bob, 50% of your mark for a course is acquired through the 2nd highest mark achieved from the HSC exam by your school, the other 50% is what you score yourself.

I've been hearing people say your rank is more important in the course than your actual mark. Can someone clarify if this is wrong or right? How does it affect your scaling or how well you do?
 

Spiritual Being

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The rank is definitely more important . It determines how you will be scaled .

Though you should be aiming to get a high mark in all your exams and assessments .
True, but students shouldn't be misled.

I know individuals who write an essay and get 95%, and if I were to mirror this essay at my school, I'd be lucky to get 50%.
 

braintic

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Saying that your rank is more important is misleading.
If the top rank scores 98%, 8 people are tied on 97%, you are ranked 10th on 96%, and rank 11 scores 80%, then your final assessment mark will reflect this uneven distribution.
That is, you will score very close to the top ranked person, and way ahead of the 11th ranked person.
Gaining 1 extra mark, causing your rank to jump from 10th to equal 2nd will make very little difference.
What is most important is the RELATIVE mark (as opposed to absolute mark).
Putting it another way, if one person gains an extra mark without improving their rank, while someone else gains an extra mark causing them to jump 10 ranks, their final assessment marks will rise by approximately the same amount. There is no bonus just for jumping ranks.
 
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D94

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That is correct.

If you are ranked first internally, you will get the highest external mark (as your school mark) even if during the year, you were scoring say in the 50s
Just because you are scoring in the 50s but you are coming first, that does not mean marks are not important.

The rank is definitely more important . It determines how you will be scaled .

Though you should be aiming to get a high mark in all your exams and assessments .
No it does not. Your marks are moderated, not your rank. Your marks are moderated based on your cohort's HSC exam marks. The bounds of the moderated marks are the highest and lowest HSC exam marks, so at no stage does BOS say 'you are ranked 8th, so let's give you this mark'.

Actual mark may be not a good representation, ie assessments/trials may have been hard.
In terms of ranking, for example
School rankings:
1) John
2) Bob
3) Sam
4) Tim
Say you were Bob, 50% of your mark for a course is acquired through the 2nd highest mark achieved from the HSC exam by your school, the other 50% is what you score yourself.
That is wrong, and a common misconception. Bob does not receive the second highest HSC exam mark of the cohort. He is moderated based on his school mark and how well the cohort performs as a whole, never by his rank.

- - - - - - -

Marks are definitely more important than ranks, but in a certain context. The mark itself, has no meaning. It's where your mark is positioned relative to the cohort which matters, but this does not mean the 'rank' of the student. Coming 20th by 2% puts you in a better position than coming 20th by 20%, yet in both cases, you are the same rank, so clearly ranks do not matter. The only cases where ranks do matter is if you are first or last. In these cases, the first ranked student's moderated assessment mark will be the highest HSC exam mark of any student in the cohort, and vice-versa for the last ranked student. Everyone else in between is moderated based on how well they performed in the year in terms of how close they are to first place, in terms of marks, not ranks.

BOS takes into account the relative gaps between students. If you are not first, then you need to ensure you have as many marks as possible, otherwise factors such as a poor tail or a poor mean of marks can distance yourself from the higher end of marks. Being ranked 2nd won't help you if you are quite distant from first place, and your cohort is stretched in the HSC exams.

As said/implied above, you may be achieving 90% or whatever, and end up getting a low HSC mark of say 80. This is because the standard at which your school sets assessments is not to the standard of the HSC. The problem is that many students only know how well they perform relative to their school's standards, so they are conned into thinking they are set for the HSC and end up doing really crap. This is in no way linked to how well you rank at school, so associating the two in this context is erroneous.

But the important point is to ensure you know how well you are performing relative to the standards of the state. If you feel as if you are not being tested, or the marking seems to be easy (no matter how nice it is to get 95%), then chances are your school isn't setting assessments to the standard of the state. But at the same time, if you aren't doing too well, but it seems like the content isn't too hard, then chances are your school isn't effectively teaching you to a standard that is competitive at state level. Both are hard to tell when you are in the middle of it, so a good way is to do past HSC papers and see how you perform, get someone from BoS or another school to mark it etc. Doing past papers from other schools (preferably selective schools since they are rarely below the standard of the state in most subjects) is also a good way of getting a variety of questions.

To quantify which is more important when one is dependent on the other makes no sense. Marks determine ranks, ranks do not determine marks. BOS does not allocate marks to certain ranks, except first and last, but those marks are based on HSC exam marks which are independent of ranks.
 
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obliviousninja

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That is wrong, and a common misconception. Bob does not receive the second highest HSC exam mark of the cohort. He is moderated based on his school mark and how well the cohort performs as a whole, never by his rank.
Ah k, thats what some people have been telling me, my b. So just to clarify, ranks don't play a role much, unless you come first?
 

D94

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Ah k, thats what some people have been telling me, my b. So just to clarify, ranks don't play a role much, unless you come first?
That is correct. The calculations used by BOS does not involve your rank, unless you are first or last.
 

obliviousninja

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Say for example you came 2nd and another person came 2nd last, this is not really a concern?

That is correct. The calculations used by BOS does not involve your rank, unless you are first or last.
 

braintic

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Say for example you came 2nd and another person came 2nd last, this is not really a concern?
A concern in what way? As long as there are at least 4 people at your school doing a subject (and there are no ties) someone must come 2nd and someone else must come 2nd last. What would the concern be?
 

obliviousninja

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Im trying to say if you are ranked between 1st and last, is there an impact? As D94 mentioned that BOS calculations does not involve rank besides 1st and last.

A concern in what way? As long as there are at least 4 people at your school doing a subject (and there are no ties) someone must come 2nd and someone else must come 2nd last. What would the concern be?
 

D94

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Im trying to say if you are ranked between 1st and last, is there an impact? As D94 mentioned that BOS calculations does not involve rank besides 1st and last.
It depends how close you are to first in terms of marks and how well your cohort performs in the HSC exam.

All moderated assessments marks fall between the highest and lowest HSC exam marks of your school. So if the lowest HSC exam mark is 90, then no one in the cohort will get less than 90, even if you're 30% from first place or you are 2nd last or whatever.

A gap of 2% between first and 2nd last puts you in a better position than a gap of 20%, but this will also depend on the highest and lowest HSC exam marks. If the range in small, then the impact of being so far behind first (in terms of marks) is small. If the range is large, then the impact is noticeable, and your mark will be near the lower end of the range.

Everything depends on the HSC exams, individually and as a cohort. But you want to put yourself in the best possible situation, i.e. as close to first in terms of marks.
 

obliviousninja

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Oh ok, thanks for the clarification.

It depends how close you are to first in terms of marks and how well your cohort performs in the HSC exam.

All moderated assessments marks fall between the highest and lowest HSC exam marks of your school. So if the lowest HSC exam mark is 90, then no one in the cohort will get less than 90, even if you're 30% from first place or you are 2nd last or whatever.

A gap of 2% between first and 2nd last puts you in a better position than a gap of 20%, but this will also depend on the highest and lowest HSC exam marks. If the range in small, then the impact of being so far behind first (in terms of marks) is small. If the range is large, then the impact is noticeable, and your mark will be near the lower end of the range.

Everything depends on the HSC exams, individually and as a cohort. But you want to put yourself in the best possible situation, i.e. as close to first in terms of marks.
 

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