Who is Australia's greatest Prime Minister over the past thirty years? (2 Viewers)

[Crobat]

what do you mean 'greatest'. because someone can be 'great' and still be a complete right-wing asshole. eg john howard and work choices. and rudd's png policies.
still though, id go for rudd- the sorry speech and his pro-gay stance. also he pulled straya through the 08 gfc and also made the AUD really really strong through that mining stuff.

Don't pretend like the Sorry Speech was anything other than a political ploy for good PR. All it did was recognise that history had happened, but it didn't fix or improve anything. There was a report where Rudd himself went through high Indigenous populated areas and asked them if they felt that what had happened after the speech had changed anything, and the response was overwhelmingly 'no'. It was political rhetoric, nothing more. That being said, it's not like I don't understand politics is clad with deception like this, but you can't say he's the best PM for saying sorry and not following up with anything substantial.

Please tell you me understand he's been anti-gay all up until he was running... He's more pro-gay than the Coalition, but he changed his mind pretty quick when he realised that demographic had no one to vote for. Hmmmm

Did he really? Please enlighten us. If you're about to say stimulus package - don't even bother.

That might've been nice for us who like to buy shit off eBay cheaply, but it was harmful for foreign exports and foreign business investments, and therefore GDP, in the long run. Not something to be incredibly proud of...

That's like saying Kevin Rudd put the 'mining stuff' in the ground. He's not Jesus as he would have you believe, you know. He was in the right place at the right time, but it's not like LNP wouldn't have capitalised on the mining boom either.

you cant deny that rudd's implementation of the stimulus package also helped us get through the GFC..

Short run help yes, in the long run it did nothing to 'save' us from the GFC. Stimulus packages aren't anything new, and even then their results aren't exactly economy changing.

 

[isildurrrr1]

on the whole AUD being strong and stuff, koreanfantasy you do realize japan's economy is in the shitter because the yen is too strong for exports and China purposely suppress the value of the RMB so they can be export competitive right?

 

[soloooooo]

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[koreafantasy]

Strong AUD hurts our exports. ruddy didn't pull australia out of the GFC, it was the policies in place YEARS before and the Australian mining industry that kept australia economically healthy. Rudd just took all the credit because he was there at the right time, same with him taking credit on the relationship with china when it was established by howard in the first place.

strong aud means ebay is a lot cheaper c: but sucks bigtime for small local businesses

 

[Triage]

As an absolute liberal pedigree and lifelong supporter of the liberal ideology I still say that it is abhorrent to suggest john howard is the best prime minister ever. Crimes against humanity to asylum seekers. Pointless and disturbing invasion of Iraq in order to crawl to the equally intellectual George Bush. Manipulation of a referendum to crawl to the equally valuable uk monarch.

Disgrace that anyone can say that this conservative schoolyard bully is even a good prime minister let alone the best.

 

[isildurrrr1]

strong aud means ebay is a lot cheaper c: but sucks bigtime for small local businesses

ummm wat. Strong AUD is GOOD for importers, eg most retailers. Strong AUD is TERRIBLE for an export economy like Australia.

triage: i dont think you know what crimes against humanities are. Did howard treat asylum seekers horribly? sure, same thing happened when labour came in power too theyre not much better. I love how people keep throwing around terms "breaking intl law/ crimes against humanity" when people have no idea what specific clauses/convention the howard government broke.

 

[Triage]

triage: i dont think you know what crimes against humanities are. Did howard treat asylum seekers horribly? sure, same thing happened when labour came in power too theyre not much better. I love how people keep throwing around terms "breaking intl law/ crimes against humanity" when people have no idea what specific clauses/convention the howard government broke.

I'm pretty sure his deliberate withholding of a fair trial for david hicks, although minor would probably qualify.

 

[isildurrrr1]

I'm pretty sure his deliberate withholding of a fair trial for david hicks, although minor would probably qualify.

no it does not. and how was hicks trial got anything to do with howard? The US arrested him and charged him. Are you saying that because the aussie government doesn't bail out every criminal and hold a "fair trial" overseas its a crime against humanity?

you still don't understand the definition of a crime against humanity. just because some asshole got a shitty trial doesnt equate it to genocide or mass murder.

 

[soloooooo]

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[SylviaB]

-strong national security- stepped up the fight against international terrorism and won the un winable wars in Iraq and Afghanistan by standing shoulder to shoulder with America and strengthening the US-Australia Alliance.

wat

 

[Lentern]

How can someone be this dumb

Rudd was never "pro-gay" (he spent 3 fucking years telling the public marriage is between a man and a woman as PM) except for about 15 seconds on the last campagin trail because he was acutely aware he would never affect the outcome of gay marriage.

I beg your pardon? The Rudd government removed more than 80 pieces of legislation discriminating against same sex Australians. In 2007 Same Sex couples were economically discriminated against on a practical, tangible level. The Rudd Labor government gave same sex couples the right to inherit superannuation and veterans pensions from deceased partners. It allowed LGBTI couples access to the Family Courts in the case of relationship breakdowns. These were tangible reforms that brought same same sex Australians equal economic status to the rest of the country. The fact that they didn't also engage in a bit of symbolic fluff over marriage status doesn't undo the real improvements that they made for same sex Australians.

 

[townie]

I beg your pardon? The Rudd government removed more than 80 pieces of legislation discriminating against same sex Australians. In 2007 Same Sex couples were economically discriminated against on a practical, tangible level. The Rudd Labor government gave same sex couples the right to inherit superannuation and veterans pensions from deceased partners. It allowed LGBTI couples access to the Family Courts in the case of relationship breakdowns. These were tangible reforms that brought same same sex Australians equal economic status to the rest of the country. The fact that they didn't also engage in a bit of symbolic fluff over marriage status doesn't undo the real improvements that they made for same sex Australians.

The fact that he didn't change it means that he certainly didn't see it as "symbolic fluff", it shows they actually thought it was important, and failing to fix it is still a big red mark against them for failing to do something about it. In fact the fact that they changed everything else but is almost as big an insult as doing nothing at all, it's just paying lip service. It isn't a reform or a step forward to fix something that should never have existed in the first place

Rudd wasn't, and isn't, a champion for gay rights (nor has any prime minister been).

 

[hit patel]

Kidding me John Howard guys? His reforms on the economy were good however during Julia's reign the economic development boosted high and the quality of life was good. Just saying. This doesnt make Julia Better but I just hate Howard after what I heard about Lost Generation and stuff taht was due to howard and you guys still vote him?

 

[1611134585]

Keating all the way woot

 

[SylviaB]

Kidding me John Howard guys? His reforms on the economy were good however during Julia's reign the economic development boosted high and the quality of life was good. Just saying. This doesnt make Julia Better but I just hate Howard after what I heard about Lost Generation and stuff taht was due to howard and you guys still vote him?

you are a very confused person

 

[Lentern]

The fact that he didn't change it means that he certainly didn't see it as "symbolic fluff", it shows they actually thought it was important, and failing to fix it is still a big red mark against them for failing to do something about it. In fact the fact that they changed everything else but is almost as big an insult as doing nothing at all, it's just paying lip service. It isn't a reform or a step forward to fix something that should never have existed in the first place

Rudd wasn't, and isn't, a champion for gay rights (nor has any prime minister been).

No it's not you feted prat, these were serious, important reforms that significantly impacted upon peoples standards of living and financial security. Carry on about your trendy fad as much as you like but don't go around passing off serious reforms lip service.

 

[townie]

No it's not you feted prat, these were serious, important reforms that significantly impacted upon peoples standards of living and financial security. Carry on about your trendy fad as much as you like but don't go around passing off serious reforms lip service.

You couldn't be more wrong. Stop being such an apologist for Rudd and face up to the fact that he only pays lip service to gay rights.

IANAL but I'm pretty sure all those "reforms" could have been more easily made just be re-defining marriage instead of doing everything but - that's lip service.

PS equality isn't a fad

 

[townie]

Also, i think you meant fetid, fêted has an entirely different connotation

 

[SylviaB]

PS equality isn't a fad

haha sure, we've reached the end of history and from here on out it will be progress and more progress to a liberal utopia

 

[isildurrrr1]

to be honest most people wouldn't find gay marriage that important of an issue when selecting a candidate even if they support it.