Educators acknowledge HSC flaws (2 Viewers)

[flashyGoldFish]

HSC students are picking easier subjects and arriving at university ill-prepared partly because universities have decided not to mandate required knowledge for entry into certain degrees, education leaders acknowledge.

University of NSW deputy vice-chancellor Iain Martin admits that this has led some students to pick subjects they hope will maximise their ATAR rather than subjects that are relevant to their future study.

"Bright students are bright students and they will take a course of action that maximises the chances of them getting into the university degree that they want, so in no way would I criticise students for doing this," Professor Martin said.

Universities have largely moved away from subject prerequisites for their degrees, instead advising students of "assumed knowledge" or "recommended studies".

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On Tuesday, the head of SCEGGS Darlinghurst Jenny Allum urged students to take up more challenging subjects, warning today's generation was too risk averse.

Board of Studies NSW president Tom Alegounarias said the lack of prerequisites at university level encouraged students to avoid the more difficult maths and science HSC subjects.

"You can get a good ATAR doing a lower level of maths, so that becomes an option rather than taking on a challenging course that will be more appropriate for study," Mr Alegounarias said.

Jenine Smith, from the Careers Advisers Association of NSW, said she advises students to choose subjects that are related to what they intend to study in the future.

"Two years worth of study [at high school] is much more effective, I believe, than a six-week bridging course," she said.



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...e-hsc-flaws-20131211-2z6fm.html#ixzz2nABp7pPZ

 

[wannaspoon]

sounds about right... I was one of those dickheads that actually bothered with maths in year 12... boy, that was a mistake

 

[phoenix1]

"Two years worth of study [at high school] is much more effective, I believe, than a six-week bridging course," she said.
‘‘It’s crazy to think you might do music and drama for the HSC because you’re really good at them and then potentially get into medicine.’’


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...e-hsc-flaws-20131211-2z6fm.html#ixzz2nc16s1HP




Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...e-hsc-flaws-20131211-2z6fm.html#ixzz2nABp7pPZ

This is by far the wisest thing one can say. I always laugh at the thought of those who do all humanities, and no maths and science and say that they want to do medicine, engineering and those who don't do chemistry but want to do pharmacy. Or those that want to do accounting, finance, actuary and don't even do maths or just do general maths. Bridging course is just a lie and it's a way for universities to gain revenue for the disillusioned and lazy ones.

 

[hawkrider]

This is by far the wisest thing one can say. I always laugh at the thought of those who do all humanities, and no maths and science and say that they want to do medicine, engineering and those who don't do chemistry but want to do pharmacy. Or those that want to do accounting, finance, actuary and don't even do maths or just do general maths. Bridging course is just a lie and it's a way for universities to gain revenue for the disillusioned and lazy ones.

There was an article posted on SMH which stated that university lecturers are frustrated with students taking high-level maths and science degrees without taking their respective subjects in high school. This means that the students would tend to struggle more with the content.

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[unforlornedhope]

This is by far the wisest thing one can say. I always laugh at the thought of those who do all humanities, and no maths and science and say that they want to do medicine, engineering and those who don't do chemistry but want to do pharmacy. Or those that want to do accounting, finance, actuary and don't even do maths or just do general maths. Bridging course is just a lie and it's a way for universities to gain revenue for the disillusioned and lazy ones.

+1

 

[nerdasdasd]

This is by far the wisest thing one can say. I always laugh at the thought of those who do all humanities, and no maths and science and say that they want to do medicine, engineering and those who don't do chemistry but want to do pharmacy. Or those that want to do accounting, finance, actuary and don't even do maths or just do general maths. Bridging course is just a lie and it's a way for universities to gain revenue for the disillusioned and lazy ones.

Well said.

 

[Drongoski]

This is by far the wisest thing one can say. I always laugh at the thought of those who do all humanities, and no maths and science and say that they want to do medicine, engineering and those who don't do chemistry but want to do pharmacy. Or those that want to do accounting, finance, actuary and don't even do maths or just do general maths. Bridging course is just a lie and it's a way for universities to gain revenue for the disillusioned and lazy ones.

+1

I've been saying this over and over again over the last 3 years. Also how "bridging courses" provide a false sense of salvation to those who did not do the subjects in their HSC.

 

[JohnMaximus]

I always laugh at those who do don't even do 4u maths.

.

 

[phoenix1]

.

I don't think I said that. Please don't misquote me.

 

[enoilgam]

The problem is with the system itself. The fact is, very few HSC courses are necessary or even helpful for university studies. Beyond Maths (which is needed for a few courses), most other subjects are too simplistic or diverge from their university counterparts. For example, economics is largely useless for a business degree because you cover most of the content quickly in the first few weeks of introductory economics courses. Added to that, what you learned in HS can easily be covered at uni (two of my friends are economics majors and neither of them did HSC Eco).

So I dont really think it's students making the mistakes here - why bother doing a course which relates to future study if it isnt going to help you much? I dont blame people for playing conservative and trying to maximise their ATARs. The HSC courses need to be overhauled so they have closer links to their university counterparts.

 

[nerdasdasd]

The problem is with the system itself. The fact is, very few HSC courses are necessary or even helpful for university studies. Beyond Maths (which is needed for a few courses), most other subjects are too simplistic or diverge from their university counterparts. For example, economics is largely useless for a business degree because you cover most of the content quickly in the first few weeks of introductory economics courses. Added to that, what you learned in HS can easily be covered at uni (two of my friends are economics majors and neither of them did HSC Eco).

So I dont really think it's students making the mistakes here - why bother doing a course which relates to future study if it isnt going to help you much? I dont blame people for playing conservative and trying to maximise their ATARs. The HSC courses need to be overhauled so they have closer links to their university counterparts.

+1, you cover most of business studies in the first few weeks anyway (of a business degree).. Lol.

 

[Spiritual Bean]

The HSC is largely, math being the exception, a formulaic system; make notes, learn them, regurgitate. It's this same formula which tutoring companies exert onto their clueless students who pay insane amounts thinking they are 'buying' their way to a high ATAR, 'here's the notes formulated by our awesome 99.95 tutor, take these notes of utter exclusivity, and you'll be on your way to a 99.95 ATAR'.

It's pretty sad that a kid who pays his tutor $50 to write a 20/20 essay (or probably a rehash of their own essay that they used in their time), can go on and succeed in the HSC, provided his IQ is higher than 5.

I think there definitely needs to be different levels of subjects, because it's probably a bit excessive to ask that the HSC should be more relevant to university, because university content is sometimes arduous and not all kids in high school aren't fit for that. I think there should be different levels of business studies, legal studies, and so forth, and the higher you go, the more relevant to university it gets, and thus the difficulty inclines. I also think the HSC should be designed in a way which rejects a formulaic approach. Questions should be more unpredictable and require students to thrive under different conditions. It shouldn't be a test of how fast you can write out your prepared essay.

So I dont really think it's students making the mistakes here - why bother doing a course which relates to future study if it isnt going to help you much? I dont blame people for playing conservative and trying to maximise their ATARs. The HSC courses need to be overhauled so they have closer links to their university counterparts.

Yes. Students can't do much when that's the system they're forced into. Analogous to how we have to comply with laws to avoid punishment, until reform better caters for our situation.

 

[hawkrider]

The HSC is largely, math being the exception, a formulaic system; make notes, learn them, regurgitate. It's this same formula which tutoring companies exert onto their clueless students who pay insane amounts thinking they are 'buying' their way to a high ATAR, 'here's the notes formulated by our awesome 99.95 tutor, take these notes of utter exclusivity, and you'll be on your way to a 99.95 ATAR'.

It's pretty sad that a kid who pays his tutor $50 to write a 20/20 essay (or probably a rehash of their own essay that they used in their time), can go on and succeed in the HSC, provided his IQ is higher than 5.

I think there definitely needs to be different levels of subjects, because it's probably a bit excessive to ask that the HSC should be more relevant to university, because university content is sometimes arduous and not all kids in high school aren't fit for that. I think there should be different levels of business studies, legal studies, and so forth, and the higher you go, the more relevant to university it gets, and thus the difficulty inclines. I also think the HSC should be designed in a way which rejects a formulaic approach. Questions should be more unpredictable and require students to thrive under different conditions. It shouldn't be a test of how fast you can write out your prepared essay.

+1

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[Drifting95]

The HSC is largely, math being the exception, a formulaic system; make notes, learn them, regurgitate. It's this same formula which tutoring companies exert onto their clueless students who pay insane amounts thinking they are 'buying' their way to a high ATAR, 'here's the notes formulated by our awesome 99.95 tutor, take these notes of utter exclusivity, and you'll be on your way to a 99.95 ATAR'.

It's pretty sad that a kid who pays his tutor $50 to write a 20/20 essay (or probably a rehash of their own essay that they used in their time), can go on and succeed in the HSC, provided his IQ is higher than 5.

I think there definitely needs to be different levels of subjects, because it's probably a bit excessive to ask that the HSC should be more relevant to university, because university content is sometimes arduous and not all kids in high school aren't fit for that. I think there should be different levels of business studies, legal studies, and so forth, and the higher you go, the more relevant to university it gets, and thus the difficulty inclines. I also think the HSC should be designed in a way which rejects a formulaic approach. Questions should be more unpredictable and require students to thrive under different conditions. It shouldn't be a test of how fast you can write out your prepared essay.



Yes. Students can't do much when that's the system they're forced into. Analogous to how we have to comply with laws to avoid punishment, until reform better caters for our situation.

Yep, students are just playing the game. If they're presented with an easier way to gain access to a certain course why wouldn't they take this opportunity (e.g choosing a lower level of maths and getting better results with less work).

The whole structure needs a change, as SB said we need a test that is more based upon understanding and not simply regurgitating content. This would make it easier for students to transition into uni as they become less dependent on being spoon fed and rote learning essays to achieve top marks.

 

[hawkrider]

Yep, students are just playing the game. If they're presented with an easier way to gain access to a certain course why wouldn't they take this opportunity (e.g choosing a lower level of maths and getting better results with less work).

The whole structure needs a change, as SB said we need a test that is more based upon understanding and not simply regurgitating content. This would make it easier for students to transition into uni as they become less dependent on being spoon fed and rote learning essays to achieve top marks.

Exactly. Critical thinking is needed.

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[brent012]

This is by far the wisest thing one can say. I always laugh at the thought of those who do all humanities, and no maths and science and say that they want to do medicine, engineering and those who don't do chemistry but want to do pharmacy. Or those that want to do accounting, finance, actuary and don't even do maths or just do general maths. Bridging course is just a lie and it's a way for universities to gain revenue for the disillusioned and lazy ones.

Works both ways. So many people doing science and maths etc. and then doing commerce or business.

HSC subject selection is just as much about what your friends are doing, what supposedly scales well and what your school offers as it is about what you actually want to do in future.

 

[isildurrrr1]

This is by far the wisest thing one can say. I always laugh at the thought of those who do all humanities, and no maths and science and say that they want to do medicine, engineering and those who don't do chemistry but want to do pharmacy. Or those that want to do accounting, finance, actuary and don't even do maths or just do general maths. Bridging course is just a lie and it's a way for universities to gain revenue for the disillusioned and lazy ones.

they must be fucking stupid. hurr maths is hard so go engineering. like the fuck lol.

 

[asianese]

Don't forget the other camp who are doing 4U maff for the scaling and are doing so bad at it ==

 

[enoilgam]

It's also hard to pick subjects based on what you want to do in the future. Many people change their pathway/course during uni - it's hard to know what you want to be at 15/16.

 

[sirable1]

If one wants to take Engineering or a heavy maths related course with a background of General Maths or no maths at all, I would at least suggest taking a gap year and studying those materials.

I know one person who studied General Maths from my old school, ranking the near end of grade and yet still manages to score an ATAR of 54. Somehow, he made it into B.Engineering @ UWS, but from what I've heard he is struggling really badly (even he was taking a Introduction to Calculus unit) and failed most of his subject units at his uni.