If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job ? (1 Viewer)

[study12345]

after graduation I mean
I currently work and do comm/law, and don't really do any clubs/societies etc
Will this be frowned upon and make it difficult for me to get a job in the future?

 

[Futuremedstudent]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

after graduation I mean
I currently work and do comm/law, and don't really do any clubs/societies etc
Will this be frowned upon and make it difficult for me to get a job in the future?

unfortunately yes There's more people than there's more jobs and unfortunately every year it gets even tougher.
Employers prefer people who are 'all rounders' which means both achieving well in the academics and other stuff like music or sport or volunteering etc.
It's not too late to start joining a club or picking up a new hobby.
good luck

 

[Crobat]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

What's the difference between you and the other thousands of Comm/Law students who work?

Generally speaking though, it is more to do with your employment history than your extra-curriculars, it really depends on the relevancy of you job experience and what you achieved in those roles. But having said that, you still have to consider what separates you from the thousands of Comm/Law students who work, especially on paper. All other things equal, the student who has done more extra-curriculars will generally look better than the student who didn't.

 

[study12345]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

the difference is i have to work 25 hours per week to pay for my young sister and my rent

 

[Crobat]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

the difference is i have to work 25 hours per week to pay for my young sister and my rent

What do you work in? That's a good thing to bring up in an interview I think, but it's the getting to the interview stage that requires a good looking resume.

 

[Futuremedstudent]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

the difference is i have to work 25 hours per week to pay for my young sister and my rent

As crobat said, mention the job in the interview but it's all about time management. Like once a week for 1-2hrs volunteer like at a hospital.

 

[klavier]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

So they rather employ a retard who joins a lot of meaningless hypocritical "clubs" than a guy with above average result? NO WAY.

 

[Futuremedstudent]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

So they rather employ a retard who joins a lot of meaningless hypocritical "clubs" than a guy with above average result? NO WAY.

ur right but they employ people who are both above average and do activities.

for example, there 2 people who apply a job. They are both above average and achieve basically the same marks. One doesn't join or do any activities and the 2nd person does do activities. who do u think will get the job?

 

[Crobat]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

So they rather employ a retard who joins a lot of meaningless hypocritical "clubs" than a guy with above average result? NO WAY.

Considering average in uni sits around a pass, saying someone is "above average" is meaningless.

In any event, your academic result is not really something instrumental to your employment, and actually rather a checklist item. Of course if you have impressive results, say 75+, it will be in your advantage, but having a 80 WAM with no extra-curriculars says nothing about you as a person besides the fact that you are uninvolved, only committed to personal matters, possibly an uninteresting person, have little experience working in teams, etc etc. Recruitment isn't about marks, it's about finding the person who is a right fit for the culture and values of the organisation. Why do you think companies have an interview process? Most organisations have a 65 cut off for applications - what does that tell you about what they expect from an applicant? High marks? If they wanted to place emphasis on marks the cut off would be higher than a credit because a credit average is very easily achievable to anyone's standards. They leave it relatively low because they want people who have been involved with things by having relevant work experience, a good list of extra-curriculars, volunteer work perhaps, participation in competitions, etc.

Furthermore, it's not really a matter of joining clubs on its own - it's about being part of the executive/committee of societies where you take on responsibility for the management and success of the club. This is one of the few times in your life as a student you are given the freedom and ability to demonstrate your actual employable skills and experience at a higher level than the likely sub-junior role you get starting off in a company, where you aren't likely to share the same autonomy as you have in starting and/or running a uni club. If you knew anything about running a club, particularly the bigger ones, you would know a lot of organisation and planning goes into events alone, not to mention the accountancy behind budgeting those events and expenses occurred throughout the year, and let's also not forget the relationship building with corporate sponsors who would one day be your employer. A student with "above average" or even "high marks" doesn't demonstrate many skills without participation in extra-curriculars.

Having said all that though, relevant industry experience will always be more beneficial for you than pure extra-curriculars alone.

 

[enoilgam]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

What's the difference between you and the other thousands of Comm/Law students who work?

To build from Crobat's point, Law is a field saturated with graduates and you really need to build a well rounded CV to set yourself apart. Most Law students (and by extension uni students) work, so you really need solid and relevant experience (I'll discuss this in further depth), plus good grades and ECs to make yourself competitive on the market. ECs dont have to necessarily be from uni, you can branch out and do other things as well (which can help set you apart).

Generally speaking though, it is more to do with your employment history than your extra-curriculars, it really depends on the relevancy of you job experience and what you achieved in those roles.

Also agree with this. At the end of the day, relevant industry experience is most likely going to trump ECs for employers. If you look at it from a business perspective, graduates and entry-level lawyers represent a cost to the business, because they need to invest in training and deal with the low productivity to expense margin associated with such workers. So they are going to be much more likely to employ people who have some experience in the field, because these people are going to be more job-ready. If I were a Law student, I would started looking from first or second year for opportunities in Law firms (i.e as an office clerk etc). If I couldnt find anything, I'd volunteer until I found a paid position (personally, I would look extremely favourably on a candidate who volunteered as it shows initiative and motivation).

It's also a good idea to build your skills through existing roles even if they dont seem relevant. I have worked as a labourer for a construction company since 2008 - whilst that seems to have little relevance for most professional roles, I asked my boss to take on some administrative duties related to WHS (such as risk assessments, site inductions etc). As I'm in the HR field, this was a relevant skill for me. Also, doing WHS duties helped me compensate for a deficiency in my skills. Whilst I work part-time in HR, WHS is not a HR function due to the nature of the business. So developing my competence in this area really helped lift my employability.

All that being said though, having a well-rounded CV with a variety of work experiences, grades and ECs is going to make you highly employable. Going a bit off-topic, but keep in mind that in this day and age, the onus is being placed on employees for their career development (it's called a protean career). So get experience now with career development so you know more for the future when you are working and want to take steps to move up the food chain.

 

[enoilgam]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

In any event, your academic result is not really something instrumental to your employment, and actually rather a checklist item. Of course if you have impressive results, say 75+, it will be in your advantage, but having a 80 WAM with no extra-curriculars says nothing about you as a person besides the fact that you are uninvolved, only committed to personal matters, possibly an uninteresting person, have little experience working in teams, etc etc. Recruitment isn't about marks, it's about finding the person who is a right fit for the culture and values of the organisation.

Again, Crobat is pretty much on the money with this - marks used to carry a lot more weight years ago, but today it's really just a checklist item. Having a really high average is helpful, but unless your marks are incredible or you have the uni medal, they wont have much impact in getting you a job. At the end of the day, finding the right employee is more than just looking at some number from uni - businesses need a holistic view of a candidate to make a decision on them.

That being said, I do get the feeling that marks have become undervalued on the market. I agree that there are big differences between uni and the workplace and good marks dont imply technical competence (i.e. a high achieving Law student might not be a good lawyer). However, I think marks say a lot about a candidates soft skills. To me, high marks suggest that an applicant is able to consistently produce a high standard of work through a range of tasks. This is essentially something you want in a candidate, because similar to uni, you will have a variety of tasks at work which need to be completed to a high standard.

 

[Crobat]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

However, I think marks say a lot about a candidates soft skills. To me, high marks suggest that an applicant is able to consistently produce a high standard of work through a range of tasks. This is essentially something you want in a candidate, because similar to uni, you will have a variety of tasks at work which need to be completed to a high standard.

I feel like although this is correct in its own way, this is only in its truest form when measured in comparison to the other activities/responsibilities the candidate is subjected to.

And again, I feel like the ability to multi-task and produce a high standard of work in all tasks is something better measured through not just studying, but studying whilst in comprehensive extra-curricular engagement (which would include relevant work experience of course).

 

[enoilgam]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

I feel like although this is correct in its own way, this is only in its truest form when measured in comparison to the other activities/responsibilities the candidate is subjected to.

And again, I feel like the ability to multi-task and produce a high standard of work in all tasks is something better measured through not just studying, but studying whilst in comprehensive extra-curricular engagement (which would include relevant work experience of course).

True point, I think it should be measured in relation to other things you do. I dont think marks are everything by any stretch, but to me they do say something about an applicant and I think they should carry a little more weight.

 

[Omnipotence]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

Having filtered through close to 70 or so resumes I can tell you that you are behind the eight ball. Close to all had work experience (not necessarily related to law, accounting or finance related) but they all have engaged in extra-circular activities such as volunteering, executive position of societies, exchange or what-not. Marks aren't really that important pass the screening stage, you can scrape through with a high pass/low credit average at the Big 4 audit (distinction average minimum for Big 6, MBB and IB) but character/fit is critical. That being said you get still get pass the initial screening stage with a strong written application + top marks and no extra-circular but when it comes to the HR/partner interview you have to be prepared for the behavioral questions. Extra-curricular activities and work experience help to add weight/shape answers.

 

[D94]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

ur right but they employ people who are both above average and do activities.

for example, there 2 people who apply a job. They are both above average and achieve basically the same marks. One doesn't join or do any activities and the 2nd person does do activities. who do u think will get the job?

It's never that simple. So what if the other person does activities? What if they have a horrible attitude, joined just for the sake of joining activities, and doesn't fit in the workplace culture?

 

[Futuremedstudent]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

It's never that simple. So what if the other person does activities? What if they have a horrible attitude, joined just for the sake of joining activities, and doesn't fit in the workplace culture?

ok i understand ur point and reasoning but wouldn't the selection committee at uni chosen the right people to do the degree like for med they ask u to do an interview.

 

[enoilgam]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

It's never that simple. So what if the other person does activities? What if they have a horrible attitude, joined just for the sake of joining activities, and doesn't fit in the workplace culture?

"Great on paper, zero social skills" - I've seen this on quite a few interviewer note forms (mainly for non-graduate engineering positions though). The bottom line is, a good CV has to be matched by a good interview.

 

[Crobat]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

ok i understand ur point and reasoning but wouldn't the selection committee at uni chosen the right people to do the degree like for med they ask u to do an interview.

That's kind of beside the point because only med has that interview and it wasn't what D94 was referring to.

Joining clubs and societies at uni are as simple as paying $5 (literally). He's saying it could be the case that someone joined societies for the sake of CV building without being actively involved in those societies or doing anything meaningful in them, and that it could be the case the candidate has a horrible attitude, e.g. thinking they are entitled to the position by way of having a degree or birthright in which case there is no amount of extra-curriculars that could save them. That's why in my previous post I said it was more about being part of the committee/executive that runs the society that is important in this regard.

Further to my point, it is also quite easy to be on the committee of societies just by knowing people already on it. And it's also pretty uncommon for interviews to be held for admitting people to the committee too (it's usually just a written application). That's why when you go into interviews/write your cover letters/write your resume/etc it is important to talk about them in regards to your achievements while on the committee in quantifiable numbers - e.g. successfully organised a event with a 120 student turn out rate and satisfied the expectations of 8 representatives from our corporate sponsors (a very rough idea).

 

[klavier]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

So to summarize, a guy with zero social skills but with loads of clubs will still get exposed by experienced employers.
But these cases seem rare.

 

[Futuremedstudent]

Re: If I do comm/law at unsw and do no extra curricular, will I be able to get a job

That's kind of beside the point because only med has that interview and it wasn't what D94 was referring to.

Joining clubs and societies at uni are as simple as paying $5 (literally). He's saying it could be the case that someone joined societies for the sake of CV building without being actively involved in those societies or doing anything meaningful in them, and that it could be the case the candidate has a horrible attitude, e.g. thinking they are entitled to the position by way of having a degree or birthright in which case there is no amount of extra-curriculars that could save them. That's why in my previous post I said it was more about being part of the committee/executive that runs the society that is important in this regard.

Further to my point, it is also quite easy to be on the committee of societies just by knowing people already on it. And it's also pretty uncommon for interviews to be held for admitting people to the committee too (it's usually just a written application). That's why when you go into interviews/write your cover letters/write your resume/etc it is important to talk about them in regards to your achievements while on the committee in quantifiable numbers - e.g. successfully organised a event with a 120 student turn out rate and satisfied the expectations of 8 representatives from our corporate sponsors (a very rough idea).

Wow, thanks for typing all of it up, that's fantastic did u ever do debating when u were at school?
ok so the point is to join a club or something, have a great attitude and make a decent contribution.