HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon (archive) (3 Viewers)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Paradoxica

-insert title here-
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
2,556
Location
Outside reality
Gender
Male
HSC
2016
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

Question is still unanswered, at least for the second part.

Anyway...

Suppose p is uniformly distributed on the interval [0,1]

You have a coin with unknown weighted (towards heads or tails, doesn't matter) probability p.

If you flip the coin twice, what is the probability you will get both sides?

What is the probability you will get one side?
 

InteGrand

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2014
Messages
6,109
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon









(In each case, if you can find an expression (possibly recursive in n), provide it, and justify your answer.)
 
Last edited:

seanieg89

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
2,662
Gender
Male
HSC
2007
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

Here is a fun one to think about. Please refrain from answering if you have seen this question before in some guise.

Shadowdude has n first dates with n of his crushes over the course of a day. He would like to ask one of them out to a second date, and he would very much like to choose the "best" one. Nothing less will suffice. Unfortunately these women all know each other, so he can only choose one, and if he doesn't organise a second date with a woman at the end of his first date with her, he loses all future opportunities with her.

What strategies can you come up with for Shadowdude to maximise his probability of choosing the best possible girl to ask out to a second date? What probability does this ensure?

What happens to the strategy and the probability of success as n gets large? I.e. If n is massive, is there much hope of making the best choice?

Assumptions:
-Upon having a first date with a girl, Shadowdude can immediately assign her a real number out of 10 that quantifies how ideal she is for him.
-These real numbers are distinct, and so provide a strict ordering.
 

seanieg89

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
2,662
Gender
Male
HSC
2007
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

Note:
Some of the possible sums that can arise in the above problem might be very unwieldy, making it difficult to compute exact probabilities for a given finite n.

You can leave such expressions in this messy form if you like, and move straight to considering the "large n" behaviour which is the main point.

Can you come up with a sequence of strategies (dependent on n of course) whose success probabilities tend to something positive in the limit ? How large can you make this "something positive"?
 
Last edited:

Drsoccerball

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
3,650
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2015
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

Here is a fun one to think about. Please refrain from answering if you have seen this question before in some guise.

Shadowdude has n first dates with n of his crushes over the course of a day. He would like to ask one of them out to a second date, and he would very much like to choose the "best" one. Nothing less will suffice. Unfortunately these women all know each other, so he can only choose one, and if he doesn't organise a second date with a woman at the end of his first date with her, he loses all future opportunities with her.

What strategies can you come up with for Shadowdude to maximise his probability of choosing the best possible girl to ask out to a second date? What probability does this ensure?

What happens to the strategy and the probability of success as n gets large? I.e. If n is massive, is there much hope of making the best choice?

Assumptions:
-Upon having a first date with a girl, Shadowdude can immediately assign her a real number out of 10 that quantifies how ideal she is for him.
-These real numbers are distinct, and so provide a strict ordering.
Shadow dudes best strategy :

"Get in the van I have your family"

Soz shadow
 

leehuan

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2014
Messages
5,805
Gender
Male
HSC
2015
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

Another question that I thought of on the spot which I have no clue if there is a solution to or not.





 

Paradoxica

-insert title here-
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
2,556
Location
Outside reality
Gender
Male
HSC
2016
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

In a passenger steam train with an arbitrarily large capacity, lined up at the station platform are an arbitrarily large number of people equal to the capacity of the train.

The first passenger in line does not know his seat, so he picks a (completely and absolutely, uniformly distributed) random seat.

Every other passenger to follow after picks his seat IFF it is free, otherwise picks a (completely and absolutely, uniformly distributed) random seat.

a) Determine the total sample space of every possible way the passengers can possibly be seated.

b) Determine the seats the last passenger can have, and their absolute numbers over the entire sample space.

c) Find the probability the last passenger will get their correct seat.
 

Paradoxica

-insert title here-
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
2,556
Location
Outside reality
Gender
Male
HSC
2016
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

now that the serious question is out of the way


In how many ways can I arrange my life so that I do not fail the HSC?
 

braintic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
2,137
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

In a passenger steam train with an arbitrarily large capacity, lined up at the station platform are an arbitrarily large number of people equal to the capacity of the train.

The first passenger in line does not know his seat, so he picks a (completely and absolutely, uniformly distributed) random seat.

Every other passenger to follow after picks his seat IFF it is free, otherwise picks a (completely and absolutely, uniformly distributed) random seat.

a) Determine the total sample space of every possible way the passengers can possibly be seated.

b) Determine the seats the last passenger can have, and their absolute numbers over the entire sample space.

c) Find the probability the last passenger will get their correct seat.
By 'arbitrarily large' do mean that an additive probability of 1/n can be assumed to be zero?
 

braintic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
2,137
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

But doesn't the number of passengers affect the answer? There is a 1/n chance that the first person gets the right seat, and in that case so will the last person. This is before considering the chance that the last person gets the right seat when the first does not.
 

seanieg89

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
2,662
Gender
Male
HSC
2007
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

Well, you might as well assume that it depends on n (a priori, why shouldn't it?) and find it in terms of n then.

I don't want to spoil this problem for anyone as it is a nice one.
 

seanieg89

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
2,662
Gender
Male
HSC
2007
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

Here is a fun one to think about. Please refrain from answering if you have seen this question before in some guise.

Shadowdude has n first dates with n of his crushes over the course of a day. He would like to ask one of them out to a second date, and he would very much like to choose the "best" one. Nothing less will suffice. Unfortunately these women all know each other, so he can only choose one, and if he doesn't organise a second date with a woman at the end of his first date with her, he loses all future opportunities with her.

What strategies can you come up with for Shadowdude to maximise his probability of choosing the best possible girl to ask out to a second date? What probability does this ensure?

What happens to the strategy and the probability of success as n gets large? I.e. If n is massive, is there much hope of making the best choice?

Assumptions:
-Upon having a first date with a girl, Shadowdude can immediately assign her a real number out of 10 that quantifies how ideal she is for him.
-These real numbers are distinct, and so provide a strict ordering.
As we have had no takers yet, I will break this down.

A strategy in this problem is a method for decisionmaking that can tell you whether or not to accept the k-th candidate, given only the information of how this candidate stands in relation to the (k-1) prior. Any such strategy gives you an overall probability of success, where success is defined to be the event of you choosing the best candidate of all. The aim of this question is to find a strategy (dependent on n of course) that is optimal (at least as good as any other strategy), and explicitly compute the success probability for this strategy.

a) We say the k-th candidate is "best yet" if they are better than the (k-1) prior. Explain why we can assume that S(n) rejects any candidates that are not best yet.

b) The work of a) means we can identify the strategies S(n) we care about with subsets A(n) of the positive integers {1,...,n}. Following the S(n) strategy then involves selecting the k-th candidate iff they are both "best yet" and k is an element of A(n). (Note that if a candidate is best yet, that is all the relevant information yielded by the interviews of the earlier candidates, the ordering of prior candidates is irrelevant.) Show that thanks to optimality we can assume that A(n)={m+1,...,n} for some m < n dependent on n. Interpret this fact in terms of an information gathering process. Intuitively, how should we expect the optimal m for a given n to vary as n gets large?

c) The work of b) means we have cut down the strategies we care about even more. Now a strategy amounts to rejecting the first m candidates and thereafter selecting the first candidate that is "best yet". Why is this a bad strategy for m very close to 1 or very close to n? Find an expression for the success probability in terms of m and n.

d) We are now interested in the limiting behaviour as n gets large. By looking at the structure of the success probability computed in c), suggest an optimal* choice for m in terms of the large integer n, and compute the limit of the success probabilities as n->inf.

(*) Actually showing that our choice of m is optimal for a given n is not simple/nice as far as I know, but there is certainly a logical choice for m that will be near-optimal and behaves optimally in the limit. Depending on how much analysis you want to do you can make stronger claims here. (Eg, for sufficiently large but fixed n, is S(n) optimal? How large must n be for this to be true?)
 
Last edited:

Paradoxica

-insert title here-
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
2,556
Location
Outside reality
Gender
Male
HSC
2016
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

But doesn't the number of passengers affect the answer? There is a 1/n chance that the first person gets the right seat, and in that case so will the last person. This is before considering the chance that the last person gets the right seat when the first does not.
*gasp*

braintic having trouble with an elementary combinatorial problem????

*faints melodramatically*
 

Paradoxica

-insert title here-
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
2,556
Location
Outside reality
Gender
Male
HSC
2016

KingOfActing

lukewarm mess
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
1,016
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2016
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

I asked this question a couple of years ago, but never got an answer:

Surely it will take one of you nerds about 2 minutes to do it and explain it :)

http://community.boredofstudies.org/10/maths/327846/snap-probability.html
The sample space is huge (and by that I mean like, too huge to reliably test with a general purpose computer without some serious native hacking) so I opted for a numerical approximation. I ran some trials in Java and it looks like the probability is right around 0.39% from some low trial counts (~10,000 trials). I got a similar result from 1.1 billion trials. I'm now running 1.5 billion trials just for confirmation, but this barely scratches the surface of the sample space so take the results with a grain of salt.

This is the code I used for the trials. Feel free to run it yourself, and change the trial count if you want. It takes me slightly under 15 ms on average / 10,000 trials.

Edit: Finished running 1.5 billion times. Results:

Event occurred 5925740 times out of 1500000000 trials.
Approximate probability: 0.3950493333333333% which is approximately once every 253 or so games.

As I said, the results really aren't super reliable due to the size of the sample space, but it should be a sufficient approximation for most purposes.

Edit 2: I should also mention that I am using Java's util.Random class for random number generation - this sort of generation uses a seed and is only pseudorandom, so it isn't perfect. Again, though, it should suffice for this purpose.
 
Last edited:

Paradoxica

-insert title here-
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
2,556
Location
Outside reality
Gender
Male
HSC
2016
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

Well as you said, it's gonna take us 18 octillion years to exhaust the entire sample space if we were going to numerically exhaust every possibility so statistical measures are the best bet.
 

KingOfActing

lukewarm mess
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
1,016
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2016
Re: HSC 2016 MX2 Combinatorics Marathon

Also if anyone cares, I ran it again and stored the turn of the first snap - a very good approximation for the probability to end on the nth turn is (note that this isn't the actual probability model, but it's a good approximation). Also note that the probability that no snaps at all happen is approximately 4.3563469%
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 3)

Top