Moderation?? (1 Viewer)

[Munti]

So just for some background, I go to a 300 ranked school where my cohort in standard 2 maths is average, but not great. We get about 3-4 band 6s every year.

So I did relatively well in the HSC exam (calculated my marks and got about a 95), but here's the dilemma: my rank is number 8! Now considering that the 8th highest mark is most likely a low band 5 bc my cohort isn't too great, are my chances at securing a b6 like screwed? (since ur hsc mark is an average of your moderated assessment and external exam mark)

Or does NESA take into account the massive gap between my mark and the 8th highest mark and still give me a b6??

If someone could please clear this up for me I would be very appreciative, this unknowingness is driving me nuts XD

 

[MONONYMOUS]

I don't know much about this, but I heard from a teacher once that the gap would be taken into consideration. Or maybe it was that your mark is moderated to be very close to your external. I'm not sure exactly but don't stress because even though the system is a bit screwed up, there is an element of fairness, and I believe you should still be able to get a Band 6 according to what you've said (if you did get a 95).

 

[Drdusk]

I don't know much about this, but I heard from a teacher once that the gap would be taken into consideration. Or maybe it was that your mark is moderated to be very close to your external. I'm not sure exactly but don't stress because even though the system is a bit screwed up, there is an element of fairness, and I believe you should still be able to get a Band 6 according to what you've said (if you did get a 95).

Sorry but this is incorrect. Internal marks are not moderated to be very close to the external. His internal as he suggest will most likely be a low band 5 or something but they're not going to moderate it up just because he smashed the externals.

 

[Munti]

Sorry but this is incorrect. Internal marks are not moderated to be very close to the external. His internal as he suggest will most likely be a low band 5 or something but they're not going to moderate it up just because he smashed the externals.

So all that jazz about smashing externals and still having a chance at b6 despite shitty internals is unlikely? wow nesa is super unfair i wont even be counted as an outlier?

 

[Drdusk]

So all that jazz about smashing externals and still having a chance at b6 despite shitty internals is unlikely? wow nesa is super unfair i wont even be counted as an outlier?

That's not how outliers work in their algorithm, and secondly that isn't unfair.

If your mark gets moderated up that high, what about the kids who are ranked higher than you? They've worked that tad bit harder and gotten a better rank. It will be totally unfair to them if your internal just gets moderated up because you aced one exam. Hsc is a culmination of all your exams throughout the year, not just one exam.

 

[brent012]

Half of your HSC mark is still externals, if you "smash" externals then that is also one more Band 6 external mark in the mix for moderation which (everything else equal) would push up your internal mark.

 

[Munti]

That's not how outliers work in their algorithm, and secondly that isn't unfair.

If your mark gets moderated up that high, what about the kids who are ranked higher than you? They've worked that tad bit harder and gotten a better rank. It will be totally unfair to them if your internal just gets moderated up because you aced one exam. Hsc is a culmination of all your exams throughout the year, not just one exam.

yeah makes sense I guess. So despite getting a 95, the low band 5 (let's say 80) means I will get an 87.5 give or take? so NESA will just ignore the 15 mark difference really?

 

[Idkwhattoput]

yeah makes sense I guess. So despite getting a 95, the low band 5 (let's say 80) means I will get an 87.5 give or take? so NESA will just ignore the 15 mark difference really?

You also need to consider exactly what your internal marks were (not just rank). They calculate your internal mark based on how far off of other people you are. So despite being 8th, and 9th getting 80, is your school mark very close to 9th's or is there a big gap between you two? If you guys are relatively close, then you'll probably get a mark only slightly higher than 9th's, but if your school mark is much better than their school mark, your internal will be much better than their's despite the fact that you guys are only one rank apart.

 

[Munti]

You also need to consider exactly what your internal marks were (not just rank). They calculate your internal mark based on how far off of other people you are. So despite being 8th, and 9th getting 80, is your school mark very close to 9th's or is there a big gap between you two? If you guys are relatively close, then you'll probably get a mark only slightly higher than 9th's, but if your school mark is much better than their school mark, your internal will be much better than their's despite the fact that you guys are only one rank apart.

hey! tysm for the input, i rlly appreciate it! i know there's a 3 marks gap between me (8th place) and 5th place?

 

[psmao]

I think this year they got a new rule where if u and the other have raw marks in different band then he can’t steal ur mark

 

[Idkwhattoput]

hey! tysm for the input, i rlly appreciate it! i know there's a 3 marks gap between me (8th place) and 5th place?

What is the distribution like across your whole class. A 3 mark gap between you and 5th sounds promising but there's no way of knowing what that means without comparison to more people. I'm going to speak very roughly here, but say it goes like this
Internal (school given mark) External
7th 87 96
you 85 95
9th 80 82

Now, what they do is try to maintain the gaps between each rank. So in this case, whatever they will try to make the gap between your moderated internal and 9th's around 2.5 times the gap between you and 7th's. For example, if they give 7th a 95 and 9th an 81, the they'll give you around 90. Hopefully you get the idea. Using this concept, you should be able to closely predict what your internal will be based on how everyone else did (but you need to know their school marks (raw school mark not moderated and external marks)).

 

[Idkwhattoput]

I think this year they got a new rule where if u and the other have raw marks in different band then he can’t steal ur mark

Where did you hear this?

 

[Idkwhattoput]

What is the distribution like across your whole class. A 3 mark gap between you and 5th sounds promising but there's no way of knowing what that means without comparison to more people. I'm going to speak very roughly here, but say it goes like this
Internal (school given mark) External
7th 87 96
you 85 95
9th 80 82

Now, what they do is try to maintain the gaps between each rank. So in this case, whatever they will try to make the gap between your moderated internal and 9th's around 2.5 times the gap between you and 7th's. For example, if they give 7th a 95 and 9th an 81, the they'll give you around 90. Hopefully you get the idea. Using this concept, you should be able to closely predict what your internal will be based on how everyone else did (but you need to know their school marks (raw school mark not moderated and external marks)).

In my example, second column is the school (un-moderated) mark, and third is external if I didn't make that clear enough.

 

[Munti]

What is the distribution like across your whole class. A 3 mark gap between you and 5th sounds promising but there's no way of knowing what that means without comparison to more people. I'm going to speak very roughly here, but say it goes like this
Internal (school given mark) External
7th 87 96
you 85 95
9th 80 82

Now, what they do is try to maintain the gaps between each rank. So in this case, whatever they will try to make the gap between your moderated internal and 9th's around 2.5 times the gap between you and 7th's. For example, if they give 7th a 95 and 9th an 81, the they'll give you around 90. Hopefully you get the idea. Using this concept, you should be able to closely predict what your internal will be based on how everyone else did (but you need to know their school marks (raw school mark not moderated and external marks)).

this is pleasing to hear! except upon speaking to my cohort, everyone (those above me) found the exam really difficult. After the release of the paper and subsequent solutions, some top students above me (i spoke to 4th place, 6th place, 7th place) calculated their mark to be around the mid 70s. So does that mean the gap won't be maintained as much? thanks for the explanation though )

 

[Idkwhattoput]

this is pleasing to hear! except upon speaking to my cohort, everyone (those above me) found the exam really difficult. After the release of the paper and subsequent solutions, some top students above me (i spoke to 4th place, 6th place, 7th place) calculated their mark to be around the mid 70s. So does that mean the gap won't be maintained as much? thanks for the explanation though )

In cases where students have performed very poorly (compared to their rank in their class), nesa excludes them from moderation and rather considers them as outliers. Although the fact that 3 students performed poorly is a little worrying. It all depends on the rest if the class I guess, but if they are not considered outliers it may not bode too well for you. If most other students didn't perform so poorly in comparison to their internals, they won't drag you down much (if at all). Although if most people in your class performed well below what you'd expect based off of their rank, then unfortunately your internals will be taken down. I'd suggest to not worry about it, because you haven't considered alignment or how well the rest of your class went.

I'm referring to the second dotpoint in the image attatched in terms of the fact that outliers are not considered (will not be allowed to drag you down) during moderation. I don't know what nesa constitutes to be an outlier though.

 

[Munti]

In cases where students have performed very poorly (compared to their rank in their class), nesa excludes them from moderation and rather considers them as outliers. Although the fact that 3 students performed poorly is a little worrying. It all depends on the rest if the class I guess, but if they are not considered outliers it may not bode too well for you. If most other students didn't perform so poorly in comparison to their internals, they won't drag you down much (if at all). Although if most people in your class performed well below what you'd expect based off of their rank, then unfortunately your internals will be taken down. I'd suggest to not worry about it, because you haven't considered alignment or how well the rest of your class went.

I'm referring to the second dotpoint in the image attatched in terms of the fact that outliers are not considered (will not be allowed to drag you down) during moderation. I don't know what nesa constitutes to be an outlier though.

damnnnn, band 4 here I come I guess :/

 

[Idkwhattoput]

damnnnn, band 4 here I come I guess :/

You still don't know enough about your peer's marks to predict your internals. Don't lose hope

 

[MONONYMOUS]

Sorry but this is incorrect. Internal marks are not moderated to be very close to the external. His internal as he suggest will most likely be a low band 5 or something but they're not going to moderate it up just because he smashed the externals.

Shittt, sorry man. Didn't know that.