internal rankings (2 Viewers)

[gilmoregirls13]

i'm so sorry if this is very dramatic, but i'm ranked second in business studies. i am very happy but at the same time i am annoyed because my average got beaten by 0.20% even though i performed better in trials (but stuffed up the take home assignments). i heard that if internal rankings are very close, nesa doesn't really see it as different and both can still do well. is this true? i hear so many different things about internal rankings so i'm scared i might be dragged/scaled down.

 

[Chiprr]

Apologies for not having the answer to your question, but I believe that with a gap so small, as long as you still do well you’ll basically get an equivalent mark. I too dropped to second in maths ext 1 (by 0.3%) and physics by a similar small gap, so I’d like clarification too if anyone else has the answer

 

[randomuser246]

I think this is what happens: When the school submits marks to nesa it is to the nearest whole number. When rounded you and the other person will be on the same number. My school doesn’t like to submit anyone in the top 10 on the same rank so they alter the marks to prevent nesa from averaging. If first is equal internal but get the different exam marks they get averaged and if there is a significant difference it can disadvantage the person with the higher mark. This is what I have gathered from talking to teachers don’t trust me on it completely

 

[gilmoregirls13]

Apologies for not having the answer to your question, but I believe that with a gap so small, as long as you still do well you’ll basically get an equivalent mark. I too dropped to second in maths ext 1 (by 0.3%) and physics by a similar small gap, so I’d like clarification too if anyone else has the answer

the pain i feel you

 

[gilmoregirls13]

I think this is what happens: When the school submits marks to nesa it is to the nearest whole number. When rounded you and the other person will be on the same number. My school doesn’t like to submit anyone in the top 10 on the same rank so they alter the marks to prevent nesa from averaging. If first is equal internal but get the different exam marks they get averaged and if there is a significant difference it can disadvantage the person with the higher mark. This is what I have gathered from talking to teachers don’t trust me on it completely

tysm!! hopefully i'll be okay then

 

[mummum]

Sorry not really answering your question but I would like to be enlightened on internal ranking. I am considering school transfer next year. Because of the easy commute and also for being the top selective school I am considering JR. I am already in the top selective School. My question about internal ranking of mine in each subject. If my internal ranking in my current school (if I choose to stay in current school) in a subject (say Chemistry) 5th and if I transfer to JR (hypothetically), my internal ranking in Chemistry becomes 20. How that will affect my final HSC marks and my ATAR. Even to make it clearer, say my internal ranking in all my subjects will fluctuate and will fall from top 5 to top 20 or top 25, how that will affect my final ATAR. Say if I choose to stay in current school with rank 5 in all subjects Vs if I transfer to JR with rank varying between 20 to 30? Sorry for making all of you confused. I will be happy to get an answer on this aspect.

 

[mummum]

Sorry not really answering your question but I would like to be enlightened on internal ranking. I am considering school transfer next year. Because of the easy commute and also for being the top selective school I am considering JR. I am already in the top selective School. My question about internal ranking of mine in each subject. If my internal ranking in my current school (if I choose to stay in current school) in a subject (say Chemistry) 5th and if I transfer to JR (hypothetically), my internal ranking in Chemistry becomes 20. How that will affect my final HSC marks and my ATAR. Even to make it clearer, say my internal ranking in all my subjects will fluctuate and will fall from top 5 to top 20 or top 25, how that will affect my final ATAR. Say if I choose to stay in current school with rank 5 in all subjects Vs if I transfer to JR with rank varying between 20 to 30? Sorry for making all of you confused. I will be happy to get an answer on this aspect.

@iloveeggs do you have any answer to my above question.

 

[iloveeggs]

i'm so sorry if this is very dramatic, but i'm ranked second in business studies. i am very happy but at the same time i am annoyed because my average got beaten by 0.20% even though i performed better in trials (but stuffed up the take home assignments). i heard that if internal rankings are very close, nesa doesn't really see it as different and both can still do well. is this true? i hear so many different things about internal rankings so i'm scared i might be dragged/scaled down.

to answer this question you while you will be ranked second if you perform really similarly to the person who is first in the hsc or even beat them it wouldn't affect you that much. and on top of that you are second not last, unless your cohort is tiny, so you are still in a favourable position and you should focus on maximising your hsc mark

 

[iloveeggs]

Sorry not really answering your question but I would like to be enlightened on internal ranking. I am considering school transfer next year. Because of the easy commute and also for being the top selective school I am considering JR. I am already in the top selective School. My question about internal ranking of mine in each subject. If my internal ranking in my current school (if I choose to stay in current school) in a subject (say Chemistry) 5th and if I transfer to JR (hypothetically), my internal ranking in Chemistry becomes 20. How that will affect my final HSC marks and my ATAR. Even to make it clearer, say my internal ranking in all my subjects will fluctuate and will fall from top 5 to top 20 or top 25, how that will affect my final ATAR. Say if I choose to stay in current school with rank 5 in all subjects Vs if I transfer to JR with rank varying between 20 to 30? Sorry for making all of you confused. I will be happy to get an answer on this aspect.

so internal ranking basically means they arrange your overall mark and rank you within your school cohort at the end of y12. so while your internal rank matters it only counts for 50% of your final hsc mark which is your internal mark. here is a useful video that i send to literally everyone, which will explain how internal ranks are used to contribute toward your final hsc mark:

being ranked 5th in your school and then moving and being ranked 20th in ruse really depends on what your school is ranked currently. if you are already in a top 10 school, i would not suggest moving bc if you are 5th roughly in a top 10 school you are already doing great and its not that dramatic of a benefit moving to ruse for your atar if you work hard within your own cohort. if your school is ranked top 20-50 moving could be a bit beneficial bc cohorts in ruse are much more stronger than in a top 20-50 school. if your school is ranked below 50 you will def benefit moving to ruse. but not be discouraging but if you are in a school ranked below 50 i wouldnt recommend trying for ruse actually bc even if you get in it might be to dramatic of a change to cope with and still do well. thats my opinion

but i have a few other things to mention

• if you are ranked 5th in all your subjects and you are already in a great selective school why would you even want to move? the only situation where you NEED to move up to a higher ranked school is if you are in a school that is ranked so low and your cohort is so weak that they get little to no band 6s and you'll be dragged down by everyone else. you could be ranked first in a school ranked in the 100s and get a high atar so it is like 80% your work and 20% your cohorts work. and that too your rankings only affect 50% of your hsc mark, if you do well in the hsc regardless, especially if you are like guaranteed 1st or smth like that you will still do amazing overall.
• if you move when you are in y8 or y9 it will be easier to adjust and maybe you can improve your ranking within a ruse cohort to what it used to be in your old school. moving in y10 or 11 is tough on you lowkey and i find that if you come from a lower ranking cohort and move up to a top 5 school you will drop to some extent and bc its in your senior years it can be demotivating for some

 

[mummum]

Thanks @iloveeggs. I am in one of the top 5 selective schools. In fact above 5 but can't be that specific rtn.

So in my context, if I maintain rank 5 in almost all subjects, then there is almost no benefit to move to Ruse? I am only considering moving for year 9 and if not then never.

But I worry, if my final internal ranking becomes like 20 to something (it could vary possibly subject to subject) then how that affect my final ATAR. Say if I stay in my current school, my final ATAR be 99.80, can I still get 99.80 ATAR in Ruse if move and if my internal ranking against Ruse cohot vary between 20 to 30 ranking? Or my ATAR will go down to something 99.70 or 99.65?

I basically like to move because it is convenient and secondly, I like to attend number 1 school.

 

[ojjjjjjjkkllkkk]

You are at the very top of the distribution curve no need to worry. You can still get equal first or first overall. If you come 1st in the hsc and that other person ranked first internally comes second you both end up with the same averaged mark in the end. Eg if you smash it and get 96 and that other person gets 95. You get 95 as assessment mark as you were second and that was the second best mark and your hsc mark is 96. Average of those two is 95. My advice is work with each other to boost each others mark in the end.

 

[mummum]

You are at the very top of the distribution curve no need to worry. You can still get equal first or first overall. If you come 1st in the hsc and that other person ranked first internally comes second you both end up with the same averaged mark in the end. Eg if you smash it and get 96 and that other person gets 95. You get 95 as assessment mark as you were second and that was the second best mark and your hsc mark is 96. Average of those two is 95. My advice is work with each other to boost each others mark in the end.

Yeah, but if I move to Ruse next year (hoping), and my final rank say in Chemistry 15 and internal mark is 84. I get 95 in HSC and that will be my own mark, I understand that. But my internal mark will be someone else's external mark who will be 15th in rank in external exam. So, if his or her external mark is 82, then I actually get 82. But if his or her external mark is 88, then I am benefited. Sorry it is so complicated. Last question is, will my ATAR be down if I move to Ruse. As long as my ATAR is not dragged down, I am okay.

 

[WeiWeiMan]

Yeah, but if I move to Ruse next year (hoping), and my final rank say in Chemistry 15 and internal mark is 84. I get 95 in HSC and that will be my own mark, I understand that. But my internal mark will be someone else's external mark who will be 15th in rank in external exam. So, if his or her external mark is 82, then I actually get 82. But if his or her external mark is 88, then I am benefited. Sorry it is so complicated. Last question is, will my ATAR be down if I move to Ruse. As long as my ATAR is not dragged down, I am okay.

1. that's an oversimplification of how moderation works
2. im pre sure some ppl as low as r15 in james ruse agricultural high school got sr last yr

so internal ranking basically means they arrange your overall mark and rank you within your school cohort at the end of y12. so while your internal rank matters it only counts for 50% of your final hsc mark which is your internal mark. here is a useful video that i send to literally everyone, which will explain how internal ranks are used to contribute toward your final hsc mark:

being ranked 5th in your school and then moving and being ranked 20th in ruse really depends on what your school is ranked currently. if you are already in a top 10 school, i would not suggest moving bc if you are 5th roughly in a top 10 school you are already doing great and its not that dramatic of a benefit moving to ruse for your atar if you work hard within your own cohort. if your school is ranked top 20-50 moving could be a bit beneficial bc cohorts in ruse are much more stronger than in a top 20-50 school. if your school is ranked below 50 you will def benefit moving to ruse. but not be discouraging but if you are in a school ranked below 50 i wouldnt recommend trying for ruse actually bc even if you get in it might be to dramatic of a change to cope with and still do well. thats my opinion

but i have a few other things to mention

• if you are ranked 5th in all your subjects and you are already in a great selective school why would you even want to move? the only situation where you NEED to move up to a higher ranked school is if you are in a school that is ranked so low and your cohort is so weak that they get little to no band 6s and you'll be dragged down by everyone else. you could be ranked first in a school ranked in the 100s and get a high atar so it is like 80% your work and 20% your cohorts work. and that too your rankings only affect 50% of your hsc mark, if you do well in the hsc regardless, especially if you are like guaranteed 1st or smth like that you will still do amazing overall.
• if you move when you are in y8 or y9 it will be easier to adjust and maybe you can improve your ranking within a ruse cohort to what it used to be in your old school. moving in y10 or 11 is tough on you lowkey and i find that if you come from a lower ranking cohort and move up to a top 5 school you will drop to some extent and bc its in your senior years it can be demotivating for some

ngl, i cbb watching the video but if it's the same as what the article said, it's an oversimplification
just read this:

Assessment moderation

Learn how the process of moderating school assessments works in the HSC, making it fair for students.

www.nsw.gov.au

 

[iloveeggs]

1. that's an oversimplification of how moderation works
2. im pre sure some ppl as low as r15 in james ruse agricultural high school got sr last yr


ngl, i cbb watching the video but if it's the same as what the article said, it's an oversimplification
just read this:

Assessment moderation

Learn how the process of moderating school assessments works in the HSC, making it fair for students.

www.nsw.gov.au

true the video is for dummies lowkey, if you actually wanted to know in depth you would have searched it up on your own tho and not be asking ppl online

 

[iloveeggs]

Thanks @iloveeggs. I am in one of the top 5 selective schools. In fact above 5 but can't be that specific rtn.

So in my context, if I maintain rank 5 in almost all subjects, then there is almost no benefit to move to Ruse? I am only considering moving for year 9 and if not then never.

But I worry, if my final internal ranking becomes like 20 to something (it could vary possibly subject to subject) then how that affect my final ATAR. Say if I stay in my current school, my final ATAR be 99.80, can I still get 99.80 ATAR in Ruse if move and if my internal ranking against Ruse cohot vary between 20 to 30 ranking? Or my ATAR will go down to something 99.70 or 99.65?

I basically like to move because it is convenient and secondly, I like to attend number 1 school.

ok so since you are saying you want to move for y9 you are in y8 or maybe even y7. why do you think ranking 5th in all of your subjects atm will reflect your performance in y12?? how do you already kow you will get a 99+ atar? not to be rude at all or even say you can't get a 99+ but i think you have really gotten ahead of yourself lol.

you dont need to think about that at the moment and in fact it is not something people worry about at all. in fact in top 5 schools some ppl tend to just settle down there if they are already doing well and maximise their ranks there bc it looks better on your resume and for uni apps to be dux of your own school than to be applicant #20 from ruse. i can assure you can still drop a 99.95 if you are in a top 5 school, period, and it will not be much easier to do that in ruse than in any other top 5 school. and nobody gives a single shit about what school you are from in tuition and things like that if you are the smartest person in the room so there is nothing you will be proving to anyone

pretty much nobody can tell you what the exact difference in atar will be if you move or not bc we dont know what hsc subjects you will do in y12 or how you as an individual will do in y12 based on your current performance. in fact if i estimated my atar based on y7/8 marks i would have accelerated everything and gone straight to uni already

personally i think you dont need to move at all and youre acting very prematurely. try your best in your own school and you will be totally fine, in fact keep dreaming abt that 99.95, you got this. you can move i you want i just dont think its as useful as you think it is and none of us have a crystal ball that can tell you that you'll get 0.05 more if you move to ruse or whatever

 

[mummum]

It makes lot of sen

ok so since you are saying you want to move for y9 you are in y8 or maybe even y7. why do you think ranking 5th in all of your subjects atm will reflect your performance in y12?? how do you already kow you will get a 99+ atar? not to be rude at all or even say you can't get a 99+ but i think you have really gotten ahead of yourself lol.

you dont need to think about that at the moment and in fact it is not something people worry about at all. in fact in top 5 schools some ppl tend to just settle down there if they are already doing well and maximise their ranks there bc it looks better on your resume and for uni apps to be dux of your own school than to be applicant #20 from ruse. i can assure you can still drop a 99.95 if you are in a top 5 school, period, and it will not be much easier to do that in ruse than in any other top 5 school. and nobody gives a single shit about what school you are from in tuition and things like that if you are the smartest person in the room so there is nothing you will be proving to anyone

pretty much nobody can tell you what the exact difference in atar will be if you move or not bc we dont know what hsc subjects you will do in y12 or how you as an individual will do in y12 based on your current performance. in fact if i estimated my atar based on y7/8 marks i would have accelerated everything and gone straight to uni already

personally i think you dont need to move at all and youre acting very prematurely. try your best in your own school and you will be totally fine, in fact keep dreaming abt that 99.95, you got this. you can move i you want i just dont think its as useful as you think it is and none of us have a crystal ball that can tell you that you'll get 0.05 more if you move to ruse or whatever

It makes lot of sense now. Thanx

 

[mummum]

true the video is for dummies lowkey, if you actually wanted to know in depth you would have searched it up on your own tho and not be asking ppl online

So I watched the video, as he said, moderation process is not perfect. I don't think it plays out fairly for everyone. Say in the video the 1st guy was only benefited by 5 marks in his internal mark where else his other friends were advantaged more. Yes, it is all about your internal ranking not the score (precisely). When the process is not 100% fair to everyone, how can we trust this? The last section where the guy explained how the aggregates were calculated and then converted in to ATAR, it was really complicated. It varies year to year, and yes subject choice does matter in the ATAR. Having said that just because Physics and Chemistry scales better, I don't think to achieve high ATAR, one has to take both these subjects. 4U math scales really well but what if someone only takes 3U math and can still get good ATAR.

 

[iloveeggs]

So I watched the video, as he said, moderation process is not perfect. I don't think it plays out fairly for everyone. Say in the video the 1st guy was only benefited by 5 marks in his internal mark where else his other friends were advantaged more. Yes, it is all about your internal ranking not the score (precisely). When the process is not 100% fair to everyone, how can we trust this? The last section where the guy explained how the aggregates were calculated and then converted in to ATAR, it was really complicated. It varies year to year, and yes subject choice does matter in the ATAR. Having said that just because Physics and Chemistry scales better, I don't think to achieve high ATAR, one has to take both these subjects. 4U math scales really well but what if someone only takes 3U math and can still get good ATAR.

yup agree with everything you said about moderation except the video has like 5 students while your grade will likely have closer to 100 so the gaps between scores will be smaller and people won't necessarily benefit by 5 marks or so like the video says, it's more like 1 mark if they are lucky. the best thing to do is to not depend on being pulled up by moderation or whatever and maximise your rank in y12. so basically you don't need to think too hard abt moderation if you have a high internal rank

yes technically you can get a high atar with any subject combination bc if you get as close to 100% in your subjects as possible you wont be affected by scaling as much. but when you choose certain subject combinations you can get a slightly worse score and still get a decent output. it's not necessary but it can be beneficial. ive known someone with 12+ units with 2u maths and their 2u didn't count towards their atar and they got a 97+, but they state ranked 2 of their other subjects and band 6'd everything else to be able to do that.

 

[iloveeggs]

yes you can get a high atar with just 3u maths

 

[mummum]

yes you can get a high atar with just 3u maths

Thank you for your response.