2007 Federal Election - Coalition or Labor/Howard or Rudd? (4 Viewers)

[frog12986]

I also believe that unions are necessary in parts of the public sector (Police, Nurses etc) where there is a minimal maket role, extensive accountability and often a reluctance by government to defend such employees.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Unions are best in lower skilled industries. While I wont be working in an area that needs a union (I guess it has a professional society) family members have told me of times unions informed them of their rights and prevented employers from doing things they were not entitled to do. Unions often win small but not insignificant benefits for workers. Toilet paper for the toilets, danger money, weekend rates. Unions are often instrumental in negotiating fair redundancy packages.

In these lower skilled workplaces who do you call for employment advice? I have been stood down without pay? Are they allowed to do that? Can they sack me for in x instance? They have moved me to a new site further away without my consent...can they do that?

In more skilled industries where the employee has bargaining power unions are of little use...ie professionals etc.

On the flip of the coin I think you need to acknowledge the difficulty small business has with dealing with unions. IMO Workers are to large corporations what small businesses are to unions... It is not easy for a relatively small business with 10-30 workers to negotiate their way through legal battles with unions ontop of keeping up with all their legal responsibilities (safety, work hours etc) and staying competitive. You've got to realise that there really are a many small businesses out there (often sole traders) doing sloppy work for much cheaper that makes this particularly hard for a more honest business. I've been told this is perhaps an argument for making businesses state-owned but I'm sure you're aware of the problems associated with that too...

It's not easy, but I think while we need more protection for our workers we need to also acknowledge the precarious position so many small companies are in at this competitive time and not overstep the mark in an attempt to protect individual workers, lest we all be worse off.

 

[frog12986]

I'd like to inquire of Frog what industry he sees himself employed in in the next 10 years?

I will most probably be employed somewhere in the public sector (all things being equal); reflected in my last post.

I must point out that I wan't the one who initiated the attack on the role of the unions but merely reflected that their role will diminish further and further into the future.

 

[wheredanton]

On the flip of the coin I think you need to acknowledge the difficulty small business has with dealing with unions. IMO Workers are to large corporations what small businesses are to unions... It is not easy for a relatively small business with 10-30 workers to negotiate their way through legal battles with unions ontop of keeping up with all their legal responsibilities (safety, work hours etc) and staying competitive. You've got to realise that there really are a many small businesses out there (often sole traders) doing sloppy work for much cheaper that makes this particularly hard for a more honest business. I've been told this is perhaps an argument for making businesses state-owned but I'm sure you're aware of the problems associated with that too...

That is true, however I was more thinking of a large corporation with significant power with a large generally unskilled workforce.

Like everything there needs to be a balance. My post was on the point of unions being useless. They are and should be a part of the labour market.

I must point out that I wan't the one who initiated the attack on the role of the unions but merely reflected that their role will diminish further and further into the future.

I think their diminishing role has more to do with the change in the makeup of Australian workers.

 

[ZabZu]

I think their diminishing role has more to do with the change in the makeup of Australian workers.

Last year at uni I learnt there are several reasons why fewer workers are joining trade unions. Heres the main ones:
- growth of casual and part time work
- the Wages and Prices Accord under the Hawke govt which limited wage increases
- anti-union industrial relations reforms
- bad image of the union movement
- anti-union policies by managers

The unionisation rate of women was low in the past but today it is almost at the same level as men.

 

[Sparcod]

I always thought that the main reason why union membership is lowering is because of the changing workforce- decline in manufacturing/ blue-collar jobs. That's the exact place where unions were built on. I didn't know that unions have a bad political side to it.


Sweets workers 'made to swallow AWAs'

Sweets workers 'made to swallow AWAs'
Shop, Distributive and Allied Employees' Association Victorian secretary Michael Donovan said the company was ordering casual workers to sign Australian Workplace Agreements that stripped them of $100 a week or more.

 

[ZabZu]

I always thought that the main reason why union membership is lowering is because of the changing workforce- decline in manufacturing/ blue-collar jobs. That's the exact place where unions were built on. I didn't know that unions have a bad political side to it.

I know what you mean but it doesnt add up. The manufacturing industry declined in the 70s and 80s with the reduction of tariffs. The proportion of workers in unions declined steadily throughout the 90s.

 

[Rafy]

Blow to Labor's election plans

LABOR'S bid to win government suffered a setback yesterday when the NSW federal independent MP Peter Andren all but ceded his seat of Calare to the Coalition by announcing he would stand for the Senate.

Mr Andren's decision means Labor needs a net gain of 17 seats to govern in its own right, instead of the 16 it was banking on.

His announcement came as the West Australian federal Labor MP and former premier Carmen Lawrence announced she would retired at the election. [...]

 

[menelaus]

Last year at uni I learnt there are several reasons why fewer workers are joining trade unions. Heres the main ones:
- growth of casual and part time work
- the Wages and Prices Accord under the Hawke govt which limited wage increases
- anti-union industrial relations reforms
- bad image of the union movement
- anti-union policies by managers

all valid reasons, but also add the fact that most people realise that they can still benefit from unions without actually having to pay membership.

 

[Rafy]

Rudd facing union backlash on forests

KEVIN Rudd is facing a backlash from the union that helped sink Mark Latham's 2004 election campaign, amid fears Labor's new forestry policy will cost Tasmanian jobs.
Pressure is also mounting on the Opposition Leader to rein in his environment spokesman, Peter Garrett, with Labor MPs concerned his pro-green policies are alienating traditional ALP supporters.
The Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union last night confirmed it would challenge Mr Garrett to amend Labor's draft climate change platform at the ALP's national conference later this month.

And on a weekend in which Mr Rudd attempted to make climate change a hallmark of his campaign for power, union leader Michael O'Connor warned that a failure to heed union demands would cost Labor votes. [...]

 

[Rafy]

South Australian Liberal Senator Jeannie Ferris passed away last night.

Senator loses cancer battle

 

[Rafy]

Union decline puts heat on Labor
Unions push Rudd on IR policy

 

[ZabZu]

"If Work Choices is so evil, why would people be walking away from unions?" the Minister for Workplace Relations, Joe Hockey, said yesterday. "This sends an emphatic message to Kevin Rudd. Workers are walking away from unions and Kevin Rudd and Labor should walk away from unions as well."

Studies show the main reason why workers join unions is that they belive they will be better off financially (due to higher wage increases, discounted or free services and goods, etc, etc), not because of ideological reasons. Obviously there are socialists who are union members but most unionists supoort capitalism.

If someone on an AWA joins a union, they lose most of the benefits of union membership, therefore they are highly unlikely to join.

The fact that my local federal mp is the current Minister for IR makes me more determined to vote Labor at the federal election.

 

[ZabZu]

"No softening of IR laws: Andrews"

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/no-softening-of-ir-laws-andrews/2007/04/08/1175970925540.html

 

[Rafy]

Oz Politics has released its Election calculator

Interestingly, the Coalition loses majority government at 49.8 per cent of the national TPP vote share. However, because of the two continuing independents, and the distribution of votes, Labor does not win majority government until it wins 52.1 per cent of the national TPP vote share. Labor has a disproportionate share of its vote locked up in safe seats.

 

[wheredanton]

Oz Politics has released its Election calculator

Hence those guys or gays that placed multi thousand dollars bets on the Liberals are probably feeling pretty good now. It's pretty much historically improbable that the ALP would win the next election.

 

[amazerxl]

Rudd all the way. Howard's been in for too long.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

And what the fuck does that have to do with anything? Anyway, the data on OzPolitics puts the Coalitions TPP numbers at about 41%. That constitutes a ~11% swing against the Coalition, which leads the ALP to form a majority government with 119 seats. Lol.

I know I've said it before, but I'm continually disturbed by the coverage of elections as if they're horse races.

 

[frog12986]

I know I've said it before, but I'm continually disturbed by the coverage of elections as if they're horse races.

Good point. I don't understand why we need to be barraged with opinion polls every week or two in relation to an election that will occur in about 7 months..It's a cliche, but there is only one poll that counts. It seems the polls and this continual discussion of numbers are more to appease the statistical driven media than anything else..

 

[Not-That-Bright]

It's interesting to see where current public sentiment lies...