9 australians in bali drug bust.. (2 Viewers)

[walrusbear]

1. ok
2. yes, because it is the (imo) best model. Of course however, I don't see where my sort of 'rule' for when intervention is necessary exactly differs from that of the UN's.
The UN only ever seems to intervene when an oppressive government has been doing things the majority of their nations population disagree's with, or when a nation does something that adversely affects another nation.
3.I have my own belief of what common standards/rights are, other people have their own beliefs... For instance, the majority of australians probably feel the death penalty is wrong. However, the majority of indonesians probably feel it is a just thing to do...
Who am I to say i'm objectively right?

And sure, perhaps in the future we may need an international standard for ALL human beings, based not on how much "power" your country has, and not based on the number of "votes" but based on some sort of international referendum (which of course... could also be tainted).

I feel for now the simplest way is to maintain the concept of a 'nation'.

is this assumption correct, by the way? (it may be of course, but it seems like a grand claim to make on the fly)

also rich you should question the concept of objectivity at this point
you of all people on this board seem to assume a position of being 'right' and vehemently criticise opposing opinion often with paltry, ill-considered and empty crap (i point to your response to my suggestion that your argument is inherently supremacist).
anyways, i take pride in being one of the only one's here to know that NONE of us know shit and, self-conscious of all flaws, offer an opinion to try to challenge the status quo conservative nonsense (imo of course) this board thrives on.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Of course I believe i'm right, and i think it's important to fight for what YOU believe is right, however i would never claim to be objectively right (in most circumstances). My theory is you believe strongly in the marxist concept of 'false consciousness' where you believe a large majority of people are pawns and only 'enlightened' individuals such as yourself ( although you state otherwise) can show us the 'true' way.

your incoherent and emotive arguement here completely misses my point
the only issue i have here is with deep respect for human life. it's like i'm being shat on for trying to defend this.
your argument is centred around conflating 'indo culture' with their drug laws. something that is implicitly condescending. i'm merely arguing that our government should have done its best to ensure that the smugglers were arrested and tried under Australian law, because i'm pretty sure most of us agree that the Indonesian drug laws severely impede on our own values.
i'm suddenly culturally insensitive because i disagree with a culture's capital punishment laws?
cut the hyperbole moron

oh yeah, and before you criticise the class of my arguments, try and STOP WRITING WITH CAPITALS TRYING TO VISUALLY CREATE A RETARDED VERSION OF MY VOICE HAHAHAHAHAHA. it makes you look even more stupid

LOLZOMGZ

Well since you only focused on a chunk of what I said .
It's great that you have such a deep respect for human life, and please do fight for what you believe in. But all that I'm trying to address is the idea that indonesia is 'wrong' and we are 'right'.

This board thrives on conservative non-sense?!?!?!
ARE YOU BLIND?! Look at some of the polls that have been done on this board "howard v latham, bush v kerry", this board is full of liberals.

 

[zahid]

This board thrives on conservative non-sense?!?!?!
ARE YOU BLIND?! Look at some of the polls that have been done on this board "howard v latham, bush v kerry", this board is full of liberals.

I beg to differ

 

[walrusbear]

Of course I believe i'm right, and i think it's important to fight for what YOU believe is right, however i would never claim to be objectively right (in most circumstances). My theory is you believe strongly in the marxist concept of 'false consciousness' where you believe a large majority of people are pawns and only 'enlightened' individuals such as yourself ( although you state otherwise) can show us the 'true' way.



Well since you only focused on a chunk of what I said .
It's great that you have such a deep respect for human life, and please do fight for what you believe in. But all that I'm trying to address is the idea that indonesia is 'wrong' and we are 'right'.

This board thrives on conservative non-sense?!?!?!
ARE YOU BLIND?! Look at some of the polls that have been done on this board "howard v latham, bush v kerry", this board is full of liberals.

i believe my viewpoint is in the minority, and i try to challenge a lot of what i see as social indoctrination
i don't believe i'm enlightened
i'm self aware of political flaws too

i think you overstate my sense of indonesia being 'wrong'
i believe that death penalty is 'wrong' and that our government has sold out 9 people for political reasons.
at the heart of this issue, do you believe in the death penalty?
do you think these 9 people deserve to die?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't believe in the death penalty, and I don't believe they deserve to die.
I don't believe they deserve life imprisonment... for smuggling the ammounts they each did I'd say they deserve 5-10 years minimum security gaol.

As for the issue of whether the government should have intervened, I think first we have to ask "did OUR government know something the indonesians didn't know? or did the indonesians know about them first and we were collaborating?"
To me it SOUNDS like our government had suspicion that there could be some drug dealers trying to smuggle drugs into australia (not knowing the nationality perhaps), and they alerted the indonesians to be careful. The indonesians found them.

 

[shortie_689]

Its such a shame about them one of the guys was rather good looking...

I dont beleive in the death penalty either....
Most criminals say that they would rather die than spend time in prison I think that you give them the death penalty they are getting what they want...
If they have truelly done a crime in particular murder I feel they should spend life in prison to deal with and put up with the consequences of their actions


Mind you the Bali police seem to be pretty vigilant and I feel they are particularly over the top

 

[tattoodguy]

what do you guys think about the claims that they were forced into it?

and that the families have now recieved threats ???????????????????/

even if its proven they receieved threats...........i dont think the bali court system will give a flying fuck.

If they really did fear for their lives and fami8lies lives -------------- i sort of feeel bad for them ..how about u guys.. ?

this case concerning the 9 of them is not as open and shut as people asssume.........most ppple feeeel bad for corby,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but in this case some of them...........there is even lesss evidence..........and the ones who were busted in the act............are claiming they were forced.

See crows opinions and other pppples opinions in the paper --- they are not based on facts. I have not heard even 1 peice of evidence connecting mr chan to the drugs.......

if he was involved i hope he was smart...so they cant prove anything.



seee that boat dude, he got locked up for 6 months in indonesia, because he took a few guns there for protection from pirates?? that was rediculous.

i have no faith at all in their justice system.

 

[monique66]

i have no faith at all in their justice system.

and rightly so, they don't seem to care what justice is about. How can u deny someone the basic right to get there bag fngerprinted? (like with Corby)

 

[tattoodguy]

also --- it pisses me offf, that these people with the suppport of their families are talking about catching the big fish etc...........

I think its wrong to telll,,,,,to try and shift the blame.

if they get hurt for having big mouths etc --- i wont be sympathetic.

i can acccept that they are drug smugglers i respect them for that..cos that takes massive balls.........but dobbing in ur associates etc --- thats such a low act.


also ---- part of the crime could have beeen done in australia --- say andrew chan or others threatened these guys etc ------------ i dont think bali has juristiction over what was done here.

having the crime committed and organised in tooo juristictions with 2 very sepreate legal systems.............couldnt that also cos alot of problems ---------- if you organise the drug smuggle from australia ---------- would that be covered by indonesian law?

 

[Enlightened_One]

If they dob in their associates good on them. You stand by a mate when he's in the right, but the people they're being asked to dob in are neither mates or in the right.

And I read today in either the Age or the Australian that those idiots have smuggled drugs out before, according to the Bali police, and they have evidence before.

 

[jennylim]

also --- it pisses me offf, that these people with the suppport of their families are talking about catching the big fish etc...........

I think its wrong to telll,,,,,to try and shift the blame.

if they get hurt for having big mouths etc --- i wont be sympathetic.

i can acccept that they are drug smugglers i respect them for that..cos that takes massive balls.........but dobbing in ur associates etc --- thats such a low act.

i beg your pardon? the entire point is catching the real drug ringleaders rather than the idiotic mules. they're who interpol should be after. they're the real criminals. if the bali 9 do NOT tell out of fear, that is BAD because they are perverting the course of justice. so stop being such an idiot. mateship is a good quality when you're on the right side of the law.

and wtf do you mean, you respect them for being drug smugglers?! if they succeeded, that heroin could be responsible for killing people of overdoses, breaking up families, etc....aaagghh

 

[lourai*87]

i really do think tatoodguy contradicts himself regularly.

But anyway, all these new revelations are coming up and its gonna keep happening. No-one will ever fully know the truth execpt the people involved...but its one of those things, if they plead guilty theyre screwed and if they plead not-guilty but are found guilty anyway (which looks likely) theyre still screwed.

They shouldnt die. Thats all. Whatever punishment they receive, it should not be death. As i have said before, it proves nothing (except the state of indonesias justice system) and it achieves nothing apart from eliminating 9 people and destroying their family and friends in the process.

 

[tattoodguy]

i contradict myself? thats news to me? any example?

You shouldnt dob anyone in........ dobbing people in and being a traitor is a bigger crime than perverting the course of justice or lying in court.

If you get busted and you cant get offff through lying and intimidating witnesses and other illlegal acts -----------u dont dob in ur co-offenders.

And you never ever be a witnesssss for any crime ---- you should never help the police ------ if you ever had a problem and you accidentaly speeded or something ---- do you think the police would help you? no they wouldnt....they would still give you a ticket...

They dont help you.............so fuck them. When i work and shit...........no police ever came to help me with my job and shit............so why should we help them with their job.

I respect drug smugglers for there balls..that takes alot of balls to risk the death penalty in a fucked up country like indonesia.........it does take huge balls....good on them for having a go.

Like most ppple are pooor etc and just sit around doing nothing --- atleast these guys rolled there sleaves up and had a go ---- its pretty gutsy.

And as for drug addicts ---------they do it themsevles............fuck drug addicts and fuck there families...........most drug addicts families are total pieces of shit..........if someone in my family was a fucking junky...........id smash the shit out of them and tie them up and shit....until they kicked there habbit.

drug addicts families are peices of shit...blamming drug dealers because they have a weak family member and they dont love him enufff to help him with his problem is pathetic.

also another big fuck you to our government for wasting probably a shit load of money on your fucked up campaign saying drugs are bad and shit.................we already know that.....u dont need to waste taxes to remind us.................it has no effect its a complete waste, and is just a marketing ploy.

 

[jennylim]

i contradict myself? thats news to me? any example?

You shouldnt dob anyone in........ dobbing people in and being a traitor is a bigger crime than perverting the course of justice or lying in court.

If you get busted and you cant get offff through lying and intimidating witnesses and other illlegal acts -----------u dont dob in ur co-offenders.

And you never ever be a witnesssss for any crime ---- you should never help the police ------ if you ever had a problem and you accidentaly speeded or something ---- do you think the police would help you? no they wouldnt....they would still give you a ticket...

They dont help you.............so fuck them. When i work and shit...........no police ever came to help me with my job and shit............so why should we help them with their job.

I respect drug smugglers for there balls..that takes alot of balls to risk the death penalty in a fucked up country like indonesia.........it does take huge balls....good on them for having a go.

dobbing people in is a good thing if those people are the real criminals and are really aiming to hurt society. if you understand that, then you do the right thing by society not your criminal mates.

the police uphold the law. and unless you're some frigging derelict or a delinquent then they are actually good for you. they protect you. speeding tickets are an example, you did the wrong thing - your speeding could endanger society. actually, i dont' know why i'm posting this because reasoning with you is obviously a waste of time.

 

[lourai*87]

tatoodguy....some of that stuff in your last post is pretty dumb to say. I do agree it is the drug addicts choice to take drugs, but the way you talked about them...its not the family's fualt if their kid gets caught up in a bad crowd. I know people who have taken drugs, although not addicts, and there is nothing wrong with their families at all.

Umm as for contradicting yourself, it just seems you take one viewpoint and then say something that appears to be taking another stand.

Anyway there is nothing we can do about it. It really disturbs me, the whole death thing, but now that is all i really have a problem with. It appears these kids had full knowledge of what they were doing and the consequences...they arent as innocent as they first made out to be. But they really shouldnt be killed for it.