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A future for nuclear power In NSW/Australia? (3 Viewers)

Generator

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Carr calls for nuclear discussion
By Anne Davies State Political Editor
June 3, 2005


The ALP is set to reignite an internal debate about the merits of nuclear power at its state conference, after the Premier, Bob Carr, yesterday said it was time to review the issue in the light of global warming.

"The world has got to debate whether uranium-derived power is more dangerous than coal. Coal is looking very dangerous. There ought to be a debate," he said.

"The planet is warming up and we need some new energy source until wind and solar and hydrogen become available."

The issue is expected to be raised at the NSW ALP conference next weekend, where Mr Carr is expected to unveil a white paper on the future electricity needs of NSW. He can expect a strong reaction from elements of the Left, who will argue that more needs to be done to encourage renewable energy. But Mr Carr expressed scepticism about the viability of wind power.

However, he stressed that his mind was not made up, and that he had no plans for nuclear power for NSW.

"I want to hear arguments about the latest methods of waste disposal - the disposal of nuclear waste. I think there's got to be arguments as well about reactor safety and about the impact of expansion of nuclear power on proliferation of nuclear weapons."

Mr Carr is likely to get some support for a debate from an unlikely source: the former president of the Australian Conservation Foundation and federal MP for Kingsford Smith, Peter Garrett, who said he agreed with Mr Carr that it was time to reopen the debate.

But he said: "My view remains that nuclear power is very costly and there are major problems with the deposal of radioactive waste which for me means it does not stack up, even with the problems of global warming caused by coal-fired power stations."

However, the move to reopen the debate will be vehemently opposed by the Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union, which led the opposition to nuclear energy in the 1970s.

"We believe the community resolved this issue decades ago," said the union's state secretary, Andrew Ferguson. "A lot of people are concerned about the environment, and nuclear energy is not consistent with their concerns."

Mr Garrett said he hoped the NSW Government would consider cleaner options such as gas-fired power stations.

A leaked document, said to be a white paper, on the state's future energy needs indicated that a new coal-fired power station would not be prohibited, instead setting emissions targets which would encourage offsets. Mr Carr has since said that the paper was only a draft. The ALP's current platform restricts the mining of uranium to three mines only.

FRESH LOOK AT FISSION

The British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, says the issue must be put on the agenda "if you are serious about the issue of climate change".

Patrick Moore, co-founder of Greenpeace, says: "Nuclear energy is the only non-greenhouse gas-emitting power source that can effectively replace fossil fuels and satisfy global demand."

The NSW Premier, Bob Carr, says:

"We need some new energy source until wind and solar and hydrogen become available."
Source: http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Carr-calls-for-nuclear-discussion/2005/06/02/1117568321780.html
Edit: Or The Australian - Carr: we could go nuclear on power.


Peter Garrett - Nukes not the answer to the greenhouse threat.
Let's go nuclear, says Science Minister or PM - Nelson advocates nuclear energy as alternative


A debate that is long overdue? Any other thoughts on the matter?
 
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Riewe

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It seems that nuclear power if the most obvious replacement for coal, mainly in the aspect of power output. All those wind farms, tidal plants and other renewable stuff just can't produce the power output that a large city requires (unless you build them on an absolutely massive scale)

But nulear plants do however cost a bit to build and maintain, and don't forget about the cost involved in waste disposal. This would be about the only hinderence, but supposedly nuclear technology has come such a long way that it is now feasible.
 

frog12986

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Nuclear Power is definately the way for the future..

However, before the feasability of such power can be established government needs to develop constructive plans/documents that blueprint environmentally viable and cost-effective disposal, and address the concerns related to safety and responses to certain safety concerns.

Obviously it is not something that can not be rushed into however, if planned and developed along stringent boundaries it could prove to be an extremely beneficial source of power.

Europe is seeing nuclear power become much more prevalent and is reducing greenhouse emmissions immensly. Does anyone know any substantive information about the usage of nuclear power in Europe and its effectiveness etc?
 

slip

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there are 2 issues here.

the first using coal produces CO2 which promotes the greenhouse effect.

our demand for energy is increasing, while the supply of coal is decreasing.

nuclear power generation adequetly solves both problems.

however i would say the best solution, is a renewable resource, which despite what you say is viable on a large scale and may even be far far cheaper then coal. its called geothermal hot dry rock energy. it has no emmisions except for water. it can cost as low as 2cents a kilowatt compared to the 8cents a kilowatt coal costs.

one site can produce 75% of NSWs demand for electricity, and geothermal power can supply all of our energy needs for over 7 000 years.

it basically works by pumping water 5km under the earth surface here it is superheated by the naturally occuring radioactive elements (however there is no worries of contamination) and the hot water is used to generate electricity.
 

Not-That-Bright

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slip said:
there are 2 issues here.

the first using coal produces CO2 which promotes the greenhouse effect.

our demand for energy is increasing, while the supply of coal is decreasing.

nuclear power generation adequetly solves both problems.

however i would say the best solution, is a renewable resource, which despite what you say is viable on a large scale and may even be far far cheaper then coal. its called geothermal hot dry rock energy. it has no emmisions except for water. it can cost as low as 2cents a kilowatt compared to the 8cents a kilowatt coal costs.

one site can produce 75% of NSWs demand for electricity, and geothermal power can supply all of our energy needs for over 7 000 years.

it basically works by pumping water 5km under the earth surface here it is superheated by the naturally occuring radioactive elements (however there is no worries of contamination) and the hot water is used to generate electricity.
I support nuclear power in Australia, however I wonder what the greens have to say about it.
 

supercharged

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nuclear technology has gone a long way since the death traps in the 1970s, the latest nuclear power plants are nowdays very safe
 

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summary of an article from reader's digest - written by james lovelock (environmentalist):

coal: requires a 1000 km line of railway trucks filled with expensive coal, emits more than a billion cubic metres of gas that overheats the globe, and creates dust and more than 600,000 metric tonnes of toxic ash.

oil: needs four or five super-tanker-loads of heavy oil important from unstable parts of the world, emits nearly as much greenhouse gas as coal plus huge volumes of sulpher oxides that, in the atmosphere, turn into acid rain and other highly toxic compounds.

natural gas: imported over long distances by ships and popelines proned to accidents and leaks; emissions are highly polluting and the gas supply is vulnerable to terrorists.

nuclear: foods on about two truck-loads of cheap and plentiful uranium importand from stable countries like canada or australia. gas and acid emissions: zero. toxic ash and dust: none. high-level radioactive waste produced: a few bucketfuls.

we know nucluer energy is safe, clean and effective because, right now, 438 nuclear reactors are supplying almost one-seventh of the world's electricity.

to phase out nuclear energy just when we need it most to combat global warming is madness. rational concerns for safety are not the issue. the anti-nuclear agenda is pushed by groups like Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth, and by some politicians. They are pursuing goals in which neither environmental good sense nor science play a part - a strange way to defend the earth.

the green idea that renewable energy can fill the gap left by retired nuclear power stations - and also meet the constantly rising demand for power - is romantic nonsense.

according to the uk's national radiological protection board, doses from the entire nuclear industry amount to less than one per cent of our total exposure. medical uses such as x-rays amount for 14 per cent and the remainder is natural. compared with known cancer risks such as smoking and poor diet, it reports, the risk from non-medical, man-made radiation is about 1/100th of one per cent.

the whole point of nuclear energy is that it makes so little waste, and people who fight nuclear energy on these grounds are not being sensible... all the high-level (most highly radioactive) waste produced in the uk after 50 years of civil nuclear operation would fill a 10-metre cube... compared with the 13,700 cubic km of co2 gas produced by burning fossil fuels.

nuclear waste does indeed take a long time to decay, but its most dangerous radioactivity is lost within a few years, rather than the hundreds of thousands claimed by the Greens. much of the remaining waste can be returned to the fuel cycle and re-processed.
 

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nekkid said:
summary of an article from reader's digest - written by james lovelock (environmentalist):
As you can tell that article is quite fullof shit.

One of the major suppliers of natural gas, coal and uranium is Australia, yet the author says that natural gas "is vulnerable to terrorists" and goes onto say "uranium importand from stable countries like australia". Same country plz explain.
Also what with all the typos? Any credible source would definitely check for spelling and grammar mistakes.

"we know nucluer energy is safe, clean and effective because, right now, 438 nuclear reactors are supplying almost one-seventh of the world's electricity."
Chernobyl, Three Mile Island anyone?

"nuclear waste does indeed take a long time to decay, but its most dangerous radioactivity is lost within a few years, rather than the hundreds of thousands claimed by the Greens. much of the remaining waste can be returned to the fuel cycle and re-processed."

No from what I remember of Chemistry and my science education, this is pretty much total bullshit (If anyone can refute this, who actually is doing science at uni, be my guest)
 

CHE-13S

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Korn said:
As you can tell that article is quite fullof shit.


Also what with all the typos? Any credible source would definitely check for spelling and grammar mistakes.

"we know nucluer energy is safe, clean and effective because, right now, 438 nuclear reactors are supplying almost one-seventh of the world's electricity."
Chernobyl, Three Mile Island anyone?
The summary was typed by the member who posted it, not by the environmentalist, hence the spelling mistakes.

The Chernobyl disaster was caused by terrible reactor design by the Soviets, as well as the plant director ignoring safety warnings during the test that caused the explosion. What happened there can be put down to mismanagement rather than any inherent safety problem with nuclear power.

I read the full article and the guy makes some excellent points. He is correct in his assertion that renewable energy (solar, wind, tidal) cannot feasibly be produced on the scale required to power large cities. What many greenies don't realise is that by ignorantly protesting against nuclear power they are helping foster community fears of nuclear power, and therefore a tendency for politicians to continue to choose coal power and the greenhouse gasses that go with it.
 

Korn

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CHE-13S said:
The summary was typed by the member who posted it, not by the environmentalist, hence the spelling mistakes.

The Chernobyl disaster was caused by terrible reactor design by the Soviets, as well as the plant director ignoring safety warnings during the test that caused the explosion. What happened there can be put down to mismanagement rather than any inherent safety problem with nuclear power.

I read the full article and the guy makes some excellent points. He is correct in his assertion that renewable energy (solar, wind, tidal) cannot feasibly be produced on the scale required to power large cities. What many greenies don't realise is that by ignorantly protesting against nuclear power they are helping foster community fears of nuclear power, and therefore a tendency for politicians to continue to choose coal power and the greenhouse gasses that go with it.
What would happen if other sources of energy (coal for example) was mismanaged? How does it compare to Chernobyl?

What about Three Mile Island, what happened there?
 

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Korn said:
What would happen if other sources of energy (coal for example) was mismanaged? How does it compare to Chernobyl?

What about Three Mile Island, what happened there?
Three Mile Island was well contained, and Chernobyl only happened because the morons tried overloading the reactor without properly thinking out the consequences.
 

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withoutaface said:
Three Mile Island was well contained, and Chernobyl only happened because the morons tried overloading the reactor without properly thinking out the consequences.
Three Mile Island was well contained, but that doesnt excuse the problem. It also doesnt make nuclear power safe
 

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Korn said:
Three Mile Island was well contained, but that doesnt excuse the problem. It also doesnt make nuclear power safe
It isn't as though the practices of the late 70s and the Soviet Union would be applied here in Australia, Korn.
 

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Korn said:
What would happen if other sources of energy (coal for example) was mismanaged? How does it compare to Chernobyl?

What about Three Mile Island, what happened there?
Even when coal is not mismanaged it causes too much damage from ash, greenhouse gases, etc. At present, considering the immense dangers presented by global warming and the disruption to the carbon cycle, the need for nuclear power seems to outweigh the minor safety issues that have been sensationalised by the media.
 

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your attempt at critisizing the article was terrible, at best.


Korn said:
One of the major suppliers of natural gas, coal and uranium is Australia, yet the author says that natural gas "is vulnerable to terrorists" and goes onto say "uranium importand from stable countries like australia". Same country plz explain.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! go back to primary and learn comprehension again please.


Korn said:
"we know nucluer energy is safe, clean and effective because, right now, 438 nuclear reactors are supplying almost one-seventh of the world's electricity."
Chernobyl, Three Mile Island anyone?
do you even know why the chernobyl disaster happened? it was mainly caused by human error, and bad design of the actual power plant. you may or may not have realised that we have some what progressed from nuclear power plants of 1986 (i know it's a stretch, but i think it's safe to say.. could someone double check on this please?).


Korn said:
"nuclear waste does indeed take a long time to decay, but its most dangerous radioactivity is lost within a few years, rather than the hundreds of thousands claimed by the Greens. much of the remaining waste can be returned to the fuel cycle and re-processed."

No from what I remember of Chemistry and my science education, this is pretty much total bullshit (If anyone can refute this, who actually is doing science at uni, be my guest)
i would think that an environmentalist who has studied the pros and cons of nuclear energy would know more than you in terms of radiation. lemme guess, yr 12 chem?

aw, people beat me too it.
 

Generator

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In Korn's defence (kind of), anyone could quite easily call themselves an environmentalist.
 

withoutaface

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"No from what I remember of Chemistry and my science education, this is pretty much total bullshit (If anyone can refute this, who actually is doing science at uni, be my guest)"

You would remember then that the gamma radiation disappears from a substance relatively quickly?
 

Korn

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withoutaface said:
"No from what I remember of Chemistry and my science education, this is pretty much total bullshit (If anyone can refute this, who actually is doing science at uni, be my guest)"

You would remember then that the gamma radiation disappears from a substance relatively quickly?
Yes, but isnt the half-life of uranium like between 240 thousand years and 4.5 Billion years?
Or isnt the halflife the important thing?
 

Korn

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Generator said:
In Korn's defence (kind of), anyone could quite easily call themselves an environmentalist.
And as there is no link to the article & i cbf googling for it, the credentials of this author cannot be ascertained. Also if im not mistaken the Readers Digest is not a academic publication or a journal, but a magazine aimed at the general public
 

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