Jaylee42003
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I wasn't being serious????????? 
A Question of Christian Theology (1 Viewer)
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Jaylee42003
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Omg, I think I know you.very, very rare.
i stopped going on here coz i got insults left right nd center coz i said Hi.
people thought i was thacker nd at the time EVERYONE on BoS hated her.
so, NEW ACCOUNT!
Azarnakumar
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speaking of which, does she have facebook
Jaylee42003
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yes.hey cookie, just wondering.
why don't you think you have to have an afterlife?
why don't you think there IS an afterlife?
in response to your question, "why do i have to have an after life?" im sorta gonna go out on a limb here...is the question beneath the question something along the lines of:
i feel like my life is being imposed upon by this concept of the afterlife and its consequences?
why cant i be in total control of my life and (and also my after-life if there is one)?,
n.b i think they are all real and reasonable thoughts that should be answered, but im tryna find the root question so that we can answer it a bit more clearly,
the other question i might ask is..
do you believe that people who commit moral crimes should be punished?
i do.
have you ever committed any moral crimes?
i have.
thats bad news. if i can believe in justice, and that i require some form of justice to be met out onto me. how much bigger or purer must the justice that god requires be?
do you believe that people who commit moral crimes should be punished?
i do.
have you ever committed any moral crimes?
i have.
thats bad news. if i can believe in justice, and that i require some form of justice to be met out onto me. how much bigger or purer must the justice that god requires be?
tommykins
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Another question that might be interesting for responses -
If we say, with the assumption that God exists - however, a catch being that believers are now condemned to Hell whilst non-believers are sentenced to Heaven (of course, this would be written in the Bible/scriptures/what not), would people still believe? They can say this 'hypothetical' makes no sense, but if we roll with their definition of 'God' we can simply say "It's the way God works, he isn't bounded by logic".
If we say, with the assumption that God exists - however, a catch being that believers are now condemned to Hell whilst non-believers are sentenced to Heaven (of course, this would be written in the Bible/scriptures/what not), would people still believe? They can say this 'hypothetical' makes no sense, but if we roll with their definition of 'God' we can simply say "It's the way God works, he isn't bounded by logic".
i guess first of all,
it isnt written in the bible, so...
second of all, when people say "its the way god works, he isnt bounded by logic" its not a very good reply tbh, not to all questions, so you may be taking the statement as a generalisation and misapplying it. i guess as always, it may be more complicated than that
having said that, i do believe that God's foolishness is greater than man's wisdom, or that god is wiser than anything/anyone and is sometimes very hard to "explain away". or put simply i dont think at times that we can say we understand the mind of god. that doesnt mean that god is a complete mystery and he hasnt revealed himself to us in any way at all. the good news of Jesus. John 3:16 "For god so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For god did not send his son into teh world to condemn the world but to save the world through him"
about your question.
Can an omnipotent being make logical impossibilities true. Can god make a square circle for instance?
The question doesnt say anything about any deficiency in God because the question itself isn't really coherent. and its therefore tricky to answer and i struggled with it too... but
the following is from Gregory Koukl, and i think its a pretty good response to a question about if God able to make a rock so big he can't lift it.
"The question pits one aspect of God’s ability against another--in this case, His creative ability against His ability to lift. The goal is to show that there are some things God can’t do, thus undermining the Christian concept of an omnipotent Creator. This illustration, however, miscasts the biblical notion of omnipotence, and is therefore guilty of the straw man fallacy.
Omnipotence doesn’t mean that God can do anything. The concept of omnipotence has to do with power, not ability per se. In fact, there are many things God can’t do. He can’t make square circles. He can’t create a morally free creature who couldn’t choose evil. He can’t instantly create a sixty-year-old man (not one that looks sixty, but one that is sixty). None of these, though, have to do with power. Instead, they are logically contradictory, and therefore contrary to God’s rational nature. The “Can God make a rock so big He can’t lift it?” challenge is no threat to Christian theism"
it isnt written in the bible, so...
second of all, when people say "its the way god works, he isnt bounded by logic" its not a very good reply tbh, not to all questions, so you may be taking the statement as a generalisation and misapplying it. i guess as always, it may be more complicated than that
having said that, i do believe that God's foolishness is greater than man's wisdom, or that god is wiser than anything/anyone and is sometimes very hard to "explain away". or put simply i dont think at times that we can say we understand the mind of god. that doesnt mean that god is a complete mystery and he hasnt revealed himself to us in any way at all. the good news of Jesus. John 3:16 "For god so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For god did not send his son into teh world to condemn the world but to save the world through him"
about your question.
Can an omnipotent being make logical impossibilities true. Can god make a square circle for instance?
The question doesnt say anything about any deficiency in God because the question itself isn't really coherent. and its therefore tricky to answer and i struggled with it too... but
the following is from Gregory Koukl, and i think its a pretty good response to a question about if God able to make a rock so big he can't lift it.
"The question pits one aspect of God’s ability against another--in this case, His creative ability against His ability to lift. The goal is to show that there are some things God can’t do, thus undermining the Christian concept of an omnipotent Creator. This illustration, however, miscasts the biblical notion of omnipotence, and is therefore guilty of the straw man fallacy.
Omnipotence doesn’t mean that God can do anything. The concept of omnipotence has to do with power, not ability per se. In fact, there are many things God can’t do. He can’t make square circles. He can’t create a morally free creature who couldn’t choose evil. He can’t instantly create a sixty-year-old man (not one that looks sixty, but one that is sixty). None of these, though, have to do with power. Instead, they are logically contradictory, and therefore contrary to God’s rational nature. The “Can God make a rock so big He can’t lift it?” challenge is no threat to Christian theism"
If we assume that God exists and that believers are now condemned to Hell whilst non-believers are sentenced to Heaven, would people still believe? They can say this 'hypothetical' makes no sense, but if we roll with their definition of 'God' we can simply say "It's the way God works, he isn't bounded by logic".
What you roll with, your definition of God, is a misrepresentation of God.
So yes, your hypothetical doesnt make sense. And so, your challenge to Christians doesnt make sense.
about dismissing christians: im not sure who specifically i am dismissing, but if you could elaborate. sadly it is also true that christians can say the wrong thing
including yes. me.
Teclis
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Eeep... so many things to deal with.
Firstly, lets start with you Tommykins. (I have this great image of you standing at the back of an Audatorium yelling "ANSWER MY FRIGGIN QUESTION ALREADY"
That's an interesting idea. Kinda counter-intuitive. I guess though that in that situation, the people who knew about God would want to save as many people as possible by not letting knowledge of Gods existence spread. Like counter-evangelism. There is a verse in on of the Epistles (letters in the New Testament for those who didn't know), I can't remember off the top of my head right now which one. I'll dig it out a bit later. But Paul basically says that he would give up his own Salvation if it meant others could be saved. I think that would be the sort of mindset that would have taken hold. A "lets NOT spread this and doom humanity to an existence in hell" kind of image.
----------------------------
Next, aequrico...
Don't quote Gregory Koukl, he is a pathetic apologetic, and I think he completely misses the point.
If you're talking about an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent God he can make a rock so big he can't lift it, then lift it.
When you have ALL knowledge, and complete power without ANY boundaries (such as physics), there are no limits. To limit Gods power like that is to diminish the idea of omnipotence. If he can create the Universe in its entirety. Whether by Beginning the Big Bang, or in 6 days... of COURSE he can create a 60 year old man that has lived for 60 years out of nowhere, because nothing is outside his power.
-------------------------------
Ksubi.
Don't carry the Christian tag unless you believe that Jesus died on the cross once and for all for your sins, and that by asking for his forgiveness you are going to inheret eternal life.
If you do believe that, read Luke 9:26...
If not, you need to make a decision either way. Not be a Cultural Christian. I'm sure you've heard it said before that the Devil owns the fence...
So yea, you should probably make a decision either way.
---------------------------------
To the Theologian question of Cookie182's.
Yes I do. Mainly because most of the Theologians I know are incredibly smart. The man who used to be the minister at my Church (he passed away quite youngof Cancer) had a PhD in BioChemistry in the study of the way certain chemicals affect the human heart muscle. He was probably smarter then everyone who posts on here (with more letters after his name then I care to count).
John Dickson, who has probably written a book you've read or seen, has a PhD in Ancient History and is a senior research fellow at Macquarie University, while also holding an Honours degree in Theology.
There are many highly intelligent Theologians out there. Many of them probably much smarter than Mr. Richard "I am so much more intelligent than anyone who believes in God" Dawkins. (Who by the way has nothing even close to a Philosophy or Theology degree, yet claims to have near-perfect insight into such things)
I respect Intelligent people... people who present reasoned arguments and know their stuff. Theology is the study of God.
In a theology degree you study history, philosophy, Hebrew and Ancient Greek (so you can read the texts in their original languages) as well as looking at the Bible in depth. And there are more subjects than that of course.
They are reasoned Academics just as much as someone with a degree in Law or Philosophy. What they are experts in is taking the Bible and showing people what it is supposed to mean. Contextually, intellectually, and how it applies to their lives.
Ever read the Bible and thought "wtf?"... It's probably because you've misunderstood the context, as you have to account for cultural traditions of the time, historical events, the fact that certain things need explanation due to language incompatability between English and Ancient Greek (such as no existence of a plural 'you') and a whole plethora of other factors.
--------------------------------------------------
And Finally the original question.
Firstly, Azarnakumar already addressed one Misconception. Hell isn't a fiery hello of torture and burning and the pain oh the pain... no.
The Bible doesn't say that Hell will be this place constantly on fire and you'll be in pain. That is a whole lot of imagery pulled from things like Revelation (which is by the way, NOT a book about the end times thankyou very much, but a coded letter to the Christians in Rome) and misconstrued readings of translations of words such as "Hades" and the like.
What the Bible is clear on is that Hell will be a seperation from God. A seperation from all that is good. So everything that you love, including love itself, won't be there, because such things come from God.
So what you basically want is to have got a little check form before you existed that had a little tick box that said "I agree to an afterlife"...
Firstly, lets start with you Tommykins. (I have this great image of you standing at the back of an Audatorium yelling "ANSWER MY FRIGGIN QUESTION ALREADY"
That's an interesting idea. Kinda counter-intuitive. I guess though that in that situation, the people who knew about God would want to save as many people as possible by not letting knowledge of Gods existence spread. Like counter-evangelism. There is a verse in on of the Epistles (letters in the New Testament for those who didn't know), I can't remember off the top of my head right now which one. I'll dig it out a bit later. But Paul basically says that he would give up his own Salvation if it meant others could be saved. I think that would be the sort of mindset that would have taken hold. A "lets NOT spread this and doom humanity to an existence in hell" kind of image.
----------------------------
Next, aequrico...
Don't quote Gregory Koukl, he is a pathetic apologetic, and I think he completely misses the point.
If you're talking about an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent God he can make a rock so big he can't lift it, then lift it.
When you have ALL knowledge, and complete power without ANY boundaries (such as physics), there are no limits. To limit Gods power like that is to diminish the idea of omnipotence. If he can create the Universe in its entirety. Whether by Beginning the Big Bang, or in 6 days... of COURSE he can create a 60 year old man that has lived for 60 years out of nowhere, because nothing is outside his power.
-------------------------------
Ksubi.
Don't carry the Christian tag unless you believe that Jesus died on the cross once and for all for your sins, and that by asking for his forgiveness you are going to inheret eternal life.
If you do believe that, read Luke 9:26...
If not, you need to make a decision either way. Not be a Cultural Christian. I'm sure you've heard it said before that the Devil owns the fence...
So yea, you should probably make a decision either way.
---------------------------------
To the Theologian question of Cookie182's.
Yes I do. Mainly because most of the Theologians I know are incredibly smart. The man who used to be the minister at my Church (he passed away quite youngof Cancer) had a PhD in BioChemistry in the study of the way certain chemicals affect the human heart muscle. He was probably smarter then everyone who posts on here (with more letters after his name then I care to count).
John Dickson, who has probably written a book you've read or seen, has a PhD in Ancient History and is a senior research fellow at Macquarie University, while also holding an Honours degree in Theology.
There are many highly intelligent Theologians out there. Many of them probably much smarter than Mr. Richard "I am so much more intelligent than anyone who believes in God" Dawkins. (Who by the way has nothing even close to a Philosophy or Theology degree, yet claims to have near-perfect insight into such things)
I respect Intelligent people... people who present reasoned arguments and know their stuff. Theology is the study of God.
In a theology degree you study history, philosophy, Hebrew and Ancient Greek (so you can read the texts in their original languages) as well as looking at the Bible in depth. And there are more subjects than that of course.
They are reasoned Academics just as much as someone with a degree in Law or Philosophy. What they are experts in is taking the Bible and showing people what it is supposed to mean. Contextually, intellectually, and how it applies to their lives.
Ever read the Bible and thought "wtf?"... It's probably because you've misunderstood the context, as you have to account for cultural traditions of the time, historical events, the fact that certain things need explanation due to language incompatability between English and Ancient Greek (such as no existence of a plural 'you') and a whole plethora of other factors.
--------------------------------------------------
And Finally the original question.
Firstly, Azarnakumar already addressed one Misconception. Hell isn't a fiery hello of torture and burning and the pain oh the pain... no.
The Bible doesn't say that Hell will be this place constantly on fire and you'll be in pain. That is a whole lot of imagery pulled from things like Revelation (which is by the way, NOT a book about the end times thankyou very much, but a coded letter to the Christians in Rome) and misconstrued readings of translations of words such as "Hades" and the like.
What the Bible is clear on is that Hell will be a seperation from God. A seperation from all that is good. So everything that you love, including love itself, won't be there, because such things come from God.
So what you basically want is to have got a little check form before you existed that had a little tick box that said "I agree to an afterlife"...
This assumption isnt very logical, its like assuming 1 + 1 = 3. However for the sake of arguement, I will elaborate.
In the event of this "religion", human nature would force us to leave and abandon such a God. I think people will not believe, if we make the assumption that believing was of course their choice.
sariah
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Well I haven't read this whole thread so I don't know what the conversation has led to but I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I don't have time to explain everything I believe on the original topic (studying for prelims arrrgh =P) but I can direct you to some answers to your questions:
Heavenly Father's Plan of Happiness
On that page, there's some explanation and links to other question-and-answers, especially relevant is this page:
God has a plan for your life
Hope this helps.. have a nice day =)
Heavenly Father's Plan of Happiness
On that page, there's some explanation and links to other question-and-answers, especially relevant is this page:
God has a plan for your life
Hope this helps.. have a nice day =)
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Random_dude
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just one question, what is the point of creating us to just judge us in the end? and what did create god? it is not like he just recognised himself out of nothing like in the golden compass, right? (or did he? dun dun dun........)
mcflystargirl
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if you cared to read the thread i replied with an answer
sariah
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Heavenly Father created us and sent us to earth so we can progress....
I believe that He was once just like us and we're created in His image.. in order for us to become like Him, we need to come to Earth, to live and learn and grow and be tested. It's all part of His plan for us =)
I believe that He was once just like us and we're created in His image.. in order for us to become like Him, we need to come to Earth, to live and learn and grow and be tested. It's all part of His plan for us =)
Random_dude
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wait, so a human, as weak and as frail as us, became a creator of others and yada yada yada. sounds like breeding to me. soes this mean humans are aliens?
now you made me feel like an experiment
and how the heck do we progress i wonder and for what sort of progress......
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sariah
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Well this is leaning towards the contentious side and besides I don't know anything about your understanding so it's best to stick to basics so I guess I'll keep it simple...
You Lived with God
that might answer some of your questions, if you genuinely want to know. =)
You Lived with God
that might answer some of your questions, if you genuinely want to know. =)