you missed the point...the unreliable human mental capacity hasn't been able to prove it (which i doubt it ever will)...this doesn't mean it doesn't exist... and personally i prefer to consider myself with a soul, and have something to live for as opposed to the pessimistic 'Earth is it' philosophyNot-That-Bright said:
Nope, I'm pretty sure I didn't miss that.
Sure isn't a good reason to believe it does tho eh?
Well I don't see it as pessimistic. But I prefer to consider myself with a million dollars as opposed to the pessimistic 'no million dollars' philosophy.
Personally I don't believe that you've come to the decision to oppose abortion because of religious reasons, it just doesn't add up to me. For instance, I could ask you "Why don't you keep the sabbath day holy?" or "Why do you lie?" and you'll say "It's too hard/inconvenient for me to follow those laws, as much as i'd like to" - so why is it that you won't accept other's much more serious inconveniences when it comes to having a child as a justifiable excuse for commiting sin? I mean for starters it's one of those situations that are uncertain and in many practical ways abortion is often what appears to logically be the best option.
Assuming abortions are outlawed first? Most certainly, I'm definitely on the left when it comes to the welfare system etc. We can stop most abortions by illigalizing them and prosecuting doctors/mothers that do them illigaly under existing manslaugher/murder laws. We also need a revamp of the legal system itself, where it serves the interest of the state rather than the personal interests of its participants.Not-That-Bright said:
That's nice. So what sort of system do you imagine? One where all the children are adopted-out or put into some sort of orphanage?
Wow. So much misery, pain caused by banning abortion. Doctor's going to gaol, Women going to gaol, babies put up for adoption knowing their mother never wanted them, children living in orphanages, society paying up the money to support this. Such an unpleasant world created in defence of a creature that didn't even care it was going to die. Not to mention the outrage of let's say the entire country that such laws had been put in place.
Would you not agree that in a utilitarian state, it would be the interest of the state to attempt to maximise happiness of it's citizens and minimise sadness? How do you think that goes with your heavy stance on abortion?
Becuase they produced indaviduals such as myself, why would you ever want to harm such great people.Damage Inc. said:
Well first of all the idea of increased financial incentives would be ideally targeted at mothers rasing their own children, with adoption as a secondary layer and state orphanage perhaps as a last resort (if needed).Not-That-Bright said:
Ok now that you're alive would you care if you were aborted? For example if someone could got back in time and killed you off as a fetus would you mind, ofcourse you would, becuase that fetus isnt just a fetus, that fetus would be YOU. Its already an unpleasant world as it is, killing less babies could actually do something to improve it.
And I'd rather live among live people than dead babies.
The babies just don't care, because unlike me they never were alive. Sure, now that I'm alive I care, but a fetus doesn't care and will never care because it's never been alive - That's where the analogy is wrong. I actually did end up being a conscious death-fearing human, the fetus never was.
I don't know of too many people affected drastically by their deaths, most reputable studies I've seen into it show that most women don't suffer any emotional harm from having an abortion and those that do were often coaxed into it against their will by their family/partner. Maybe all this unpleasantness in the world is radiating from people like yourself? Do you cry thinking about the aborted babies or something? Now on the other hand, I can think of many people that would be affected drastically by your ideas if they were to be implimented. In Australia I believe it's something like 80,000 women each year getting abortions.
Yes but you are killing a person that has those qualities. Even if what you say is true (which it isnt), you're still killing something that will have those qualities, and that does not make it any better - the same way it doesent matter whether we kill people if they are awake or asleep.Not-That-Bright said:
How nice.
Not really, it is however a silent genocide, and since I still have some reason left in my brain and am capable of forming INDAPENDANT opinions on issues, I oppose it.
Given the general social environment at the moment, I think we are closer than even I hope
scum, since they've knowingly taken a life, their lives arent worth shit either.
Well someone that's asleep has been conscious before, they care about their life before they go to sleep. A fetus doesn't care about it's life while it is forming.
Whatever, but where's this pain comming from? The fetus's? We've established they don't feel pain. So if the women whom get the abortions usually don't feel pain and if other people that oppose abortion are like you and don't feel any pain - then where does the pain come from? Because I can tell you that in your world, there is alot of pain caused and alot of people would be upset.
