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Am I better off dropping down to Standard Maths? (1 Viewer)

ZakaryJayNicholls

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Just to clear things up Standard math is roughly scaled to AQF level 3, advanced math is scaled to AQF level 4, and Extension math is scaled to AQF 5 [AQF 5 being the approximate level of first year university math courses]. For a student who completed year 9/10 in the 5.3 or 5.3+ streams [which are approximately scaled to AQF 3], they should find standard to be of a similar level of difficulty with slightly different topic coverage. Lower marks in higher courses are almost always more mathematically meaningful than higher marks in lower courses, except where the differential is particularly egregious, e.g. 10 in advanced math suggests the student is less competent at math than 90 in standard2, but a 50 in advanced is almost certainly more meaningful than a 90 in standard2. For students who do not need much math in a future career, any math course with any mark is acceptable, as employers in non-math fields really don't care about your marks.
 
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lolcti

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I didn't say "higher" I said "more meaningful".
It's not more meaningful cause if you got a 90 in standard aligned you probably had a higher raw mark, for advanced a 50 aligned would probably be 30 raw, so really if I failed an exam and got b2 I wouldn't say its more meaningful than a b6 since there's definitely some crossovers between the two, with some differences. As someone doing advanced its not fair to call one or the other better or worse, 90 is much more meaningful than a 50 in standard but if you were comparing a 90 in advanced to standard I'd understand what you're saying.
 

its_ace21

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It's not more meaningful cause if you got a 90 in standard aligned you probably had a higher raw mark, for advanced a 50 aligned would probably be 30 raw, so really if I failed an exam and got b2 I wouldn't say its more meaningful than a b6 since there's definitely some crossovers between the two, with some differences. As someone doing advanced its not fair to call one or the other better or worse, 90 is much more meaningful than a 50 in standard but if you were comparing a 90 in advanced to standard I'd understand what you're saying.
wait ive never seen a raw mark get aligned lower in math std, its either higher or no alignment
 

ZakaryJayNicholls

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no its not, when u put it in an atar calculator the 90 in standard gives u a higher atar
ATAR scaling is in no way indicative of difficulty or academic rigor. It is an arbitrary, heavily grade-inflated, system used to allocate students into the university system.

To demonstrate this point, students completing Standard2 are often not allowed to even enroll in quantitative degrees, as many of the universities have identified the probability of a Standard2 student completing a quantitative program is so low that it is not even worth letting them try. This is because the level of mathematical maturity associated with completion of standard 2 is substantially less than the mathematical maturity associated with advanced.

That said, standard2 is a reasonable course, I teach a handful of std2 kids every year (along with kids in every other HSC math course and have done so for the past 14 years), unfortunately the level of rigor in the course is simply very low.

This means that students taking standard2 are almost always required to complete bridging courses prior to starting in quantitative programs within the university system.
 

WeiWeiMan

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no its not, when u put it in an atar calculator the 90 in standard gives u a higher atar
...
he never said 50 in advanced scales better

no I disagree, if you get 90 in standard you certainly can get higher than 50 if you do advanced
this may be an unpopular opinion but I think if you can get a b6 in standard, you can get a b6 in advanced. My reason for this? I have none I'm pulling it out of nowhere.
 

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lolcti

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he never said 50 in advanced scales better


this may be an unpopular opinion but I think if you can get a b6 in standard, I can get a b6 in advanced. My reason for this? I have none I'm pulling it out of nowhere.
That's what im saying, if you get a band 6 in standard you can def get band 6 in advanced.
 

lolcti

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ATAR scaling is in no way indicative of difficulty or academic rigor. It is an arbitrary, heavily grade-inflated, system used to allocate students into the university system.

To demonstrate this point, students completing Standard2 are often not allowed to even enroll in quantitative degrees, as many of the universities have identified the probability of a Standard2 student completing a quantitative program is so low that it is not even worth letting them try. This is because the level of mathematical maturity associated with completion of standard 2 is substantially less than the mathematical maturity associated with advanced.

That said, standard2 is a reasonable course, I teach a handful of std2 kids every year (along with kids in every other HSC math course and have done so for the past 14 years), unfortunately the level of rigor in the course is simply very low.

This means that students taking standard2 are almost always required to complete bridging courses prior to starting in quantitative programs within the university system.
That's not fair... some people are forced to take standard while others are forced to take advanced at selective schools. Some schools have started to do standard math because their students are failing advanced. I'm pretty sure this year or last yr a school started doing standard math 2 and their top student got first in the state. I'm not saying standard is hard, I have no idea but I know several people doing it and they're doing great. You only need to take a bridging course if you want to be in stem, and yeah your 'advanced kids' who are sooooo much smarter than standard kids that score below 70 will also have to take a bridging course so their 2 years was wasted as well. So I guess their 50 wasn't much more meaningful right??
 

WeiWeiMan

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he said a 50 is more meaningful, so what else does it mean?
...
read what he said
That's what im saying, if you get a band 6 in standard you can def get band 6 in advanced.
i mean looking at rawmarks database the b6 cutoff for standard was 90 and 79 for advanced

also at higher marks (high b6 level), advanced aligns quite a bit better
a 97 raw went to 97 (according to ace) whereas a 95 raw went to 98 advanced (97.8 atar cont vs 99.7 atar cont)
personally I think the difference between 100 raw and 97 raw is either exam technique or careless errors
since advanced aligns nicer, it's more forgiving for marks lost

edit: given new information the values above are wrong:
97 - 97 std, (97.8 atar cont)
 
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its_ace21

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read what he said

i mean looking at rawmarks database the b6 cutoff for standard was 90 and 79 for advanced

also at higher marks (high b6 level), advanced aligns quite a bit better
a 97 raw went to 95 (according to ace) whereas a 95 raw went to 98 advanced (96.2 atar cont vs 99.7 atar cont)
personally I think the difference between 100 raw and 97 raw is either exam technique or careless errors
since advanced aligns nicer, it's more forgiving for marks lost
no my raw was 97 (and it stayed - no alignment) but internal pulled me down to a 95
 

lolcti

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e.g. 10 in advanced math suggests the student is less competent at math than 90 in standard2, but a 50 in advanced is almost certainly more meaningful than a 90 in standard2.
I'm trying to understand, most unis will actually also force you to take a bridging course if you get a 50 in advances i.e usyd. So how is it more meaningful, especially when usyd is the only university with prerequisites as maths.
 

ZakaryJayNicholls

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I'm trying to understand, most unis will actually also force you to take a bridging course if you get a 50 in advances i.e usyd. So how is it more meaningful, especially when usyd is the only university with prerequisites as maths.
Advanced actually covers challenging algebra and introductory calculus, as well as calculus based mathematical modelling and calculus based statistics, standard does not cover or even begin to get close to anything like this in any meaningful way. A student having seen calculus before is more likely to successfully complete continued courses on calculus. From a university perspective, lecturers in quantitative faculties will often be surprised if a student from standard2 is in their class, as it is assumed standard1/2 students will not be pursuing quantitative professions or careers. At UNSW/USYD the lecturers in quant subjects might even be surprised if students have not completed extension, as extension is a step even higher in terms of rigor.
 

Bronx_Tips

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I'm trying to understand, most unis will actually also force you to take a bridging course if you get a 50 in advances i.e usyd. So how is it more meaningful, especially when usyd is the only university with prerequisites as maths.
whats the point of that anyways
 

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