America Haters Unite!! (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

I'm disgusted by how people have turned on america in the context of this disaster..

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I'm not for or against america... they should be reviewed on a case by case basis, however i am for america in reguards to what they have done in this disaster.

 

[ArgueEverything]

The initial amount the US government pledged to Tsunami victims was a mere $15 million. This was TWO days into the disaster, when the gravity of the situation was clear to everyone with half a brain (and heart). That is, two days after the worst natural disaster in recent history, which hit twelve of the world's poorest nations and did $billions in damage, the world's richest country comes out and offers $15 million.

To put that figure in disgusting, pathetic context, more than twice that amount ill be spent on Bush's inauguration ceremony later this month. $15 million is less than the cost of a single f-16 fighter jet. This was the reason why people used words like "stingy" to describe the US' initial contribution (also, note that the New York Times used this word in an editorial - its not just "American-haters" who thought America was being stingy. A lot of influential Americans thought so, too. Also, the very first person who used the word "stingy", the emergency relief director for the UN, WAS actually referring to ALL western countries, not just the United States.)

The fact that the aid contribution has risen to $350 million now probably says more about the potency of those who voiced criticism of American stinginess. Remember, it wasn't just fourteen year-old armchair revolutionaries who thought $15 was stingy - many influential Americans and foreigners thought so, too. That's the only reason why aid was increased.

That makes the US government opportunistic and cynical, as well as stingy, in my books.

 

[ihavenothing]

down with them i say!

GO EUROPE!!!

EUROPE - MANY COUNTRIES, ONE SINGLE NATION

 

[Cape]

down with them i say!

GO EUROPE!!!

EUROPE - MANY COUNTRIES, ONE SINGLE NATION

prefectly well said :uhhuh:

the European Union is so much better than America!!!

 

[loquasagacious]

It doesnt make any sense to compare relief efforts in raw numbers, it must be measured to show how much is being given and how much can be afforded to be given.
The easiest way to do this being to express the numbers as a percentage of GDP or per capita.

If we measure it this way then the US is about the least contributor to the UN and a small west african country the greatest. These figures dont necasserily relate to the tsunami they just serve as an example of a better way of comparing things.

 

[mr EaZy]

Edit: to cape

i like em too, its the modern version of NATO isnt it? it just excludes the US and canada i think and includes fmr soviet satellite nations

Go Europe!

 

[mr EaZy]

I'm not for or against america... they should be reviewed on a case by case basis, however i am for america in reguards to what they have done in this disaster.

so am i.
i dont go around bashing people around about what a few people say about america now do i ?

 

[katie_tully]

I think it's very easy to sit here and criticise a government for their initial lack of response when it comes to a disaster, but one has to realise that before any money was donated America sent it's 5th Pacific Fleet to the disaster zone, even though it was on its way to Iraq.
In light of such a disaster people are always going to point the finger and criticise, but I ask those who are criticising... What are YOU doing to help?

France and other certain European nations never seem to do anything, and are always quick to object/criticise... interesting to note that they werent complaining when the world came to save their pathetic arses in World War 2.

 

[breaking]

I think it's very easy to sit here and criticise a government for their initial lack of response when it comes to a disaster, but one has to realise that before any money was donated America sent it's 5th Pacific Fleet to the disaster zone, even though it was on its way to Iraq.
In light of such a disaster people are always going to point the finger and criticise, but I ask those who are criticising... What are YOU doing to help?

France and other certain European nations never seem to do anything, and are always quick to object/criticise... interesting to note that they werent complaining when the world came to save their pathetic arses in World War 2.

consider yourself repped :uhhuh:

 

[ihavenothing]

americas insularity and conservatism pisses me off. Europe seems to make all the right moves thats y they are on top of america financial wise because they like to make. The top 5 richest countries in the world are in Europe and places like France and the Netherlands are wonderful places that emphasise on tolerance and keep an eye on the world that is y they totally kick americas big obese ass.

 

[ArgueEverything]

I think it's very easy to sit here and criticise a government for their initial lack of response when it comes to a disaster, but one has to realise that before any money was donated America sent it's 5th Pacific Fleet to the disaster zone, even though it was on its way to Iraq.

WOW! They diverted a war fleet to help in a crisis where over 150 000 people died? God bless them, they must be saints. Never mind the fact that it took Bush THREE days to even make a public statement on the issue (I guess he was having just too much fun on that ranch of his), or that $15 million is barely enough to buy a war plane.

No one has yet explained why, three days into the disaster (i.e. when everyone knew that the casualties would run into the tens of thousands), the US gov could not have contributed more than $15 million (a stingy amount by any standards, given the gravity of the situation).

In light of such a disaster people are always going to point the finger and criticise, but I ask those who are criticising... What are YOU doing to help?

France and other certain European nations never seem to do anything, and are always quick to object/criticise... interesting to note that they werent complaining when the world came to save their pathetic arses in World War 2.

I'm doing a helluva lot more to help, given my relatively inferior resources, than the United States is.

And btw, its a bit disingenuous to say that "France" and "certain European nations" never seem to do anything. In 2003, the US government gave $16.2 billion dollars in development aid, compared to the EU's $37.1 billion dollars. And the bulk of that money, I can assure you, comes from France and those "certain European nations" which you so disdain - despite the fact that they have far lower populations and GDPs than the US.

Your use of an historical parallel is nonsense. If it wasn't for Stalin, you'd be speaking German. That doesn't mean you should go around defending stalin's labour camps now, does it?

 

[katie_tully]

americas insularity and conservatism pisses me off. Europe seems to make all the right moves thats y they are on top of america financial wise because they like to make. The top 5 richest countries in the world are in Europe and places like France and the Netherlands are wonderful places that emphasise on tolerance and keep an eye on the world that is y they totally kick americas big obese ass.

When and how are the Netherlands and France going to kick Americas ass? They don't have the resources. America's army could go in there tomorrow and level both shitholes to the ground.
Are you talking about the countries over all wealth or their GDP?

 

[katie_tully]

WOW! They diverted a war fleet to help in a crisis where over 150 000 people died? God bless them, they must be saints. Never mind the fact that it took Bush THREE days to even make a public statement on the issue (I guess he was having just too much fun on that ranch of his), or that $15 million is barely enough to buy a war plane.

No one has yet explained why, three days into the disaster (i.e. when everyone knew that the casualties would run into the tens of thousands), the US gov could not have contributed more than $15 million (a stingy amount by any standards, given the gravity of the situation).

Our initial donation was only $10 million. America has not said that they are not going to contribute more money to the disaster?
Tell me, why all of a sudden is the world bitching that America is not getting involved in something full steam ahead?
Does nothing please you people?

I'm doing a helluva lot more to help, given my relatively inferior resources, than the United States is.

And btw, its a bit disingenuous to say that "France" and "certain European nations" never seem to do anything. In 2003, the US government $16.2 billion dollars, compared to the EU's $37.1 billion dollars. And the bulk of that money, I can assure you, comes from France and those "certain European nations" which you so disdain - despite the fact that they have far lower populations and GDPs than the US.

Your use of an historical parallel is nonsense. If it wasn't for Stalin, you'd be speaking German. That doesn't mean you should go around defending stalin's labour camps now, does it?

No you're right. We'd be speaking Russian if Stalin got his way, god bless the little dear.
Your sentence doesn't make sense. "Its a bit disingenuous to say that France and certain European nations never seem to do anything. In 2003, the US government $16.2 billion dollars, compared to the EU's $37.1 billion dollars."
What exactly did they do in 2003 apart from $16 billion dollars?

 

[katie_tully]

I like how you all take what the media spoon feeds you. Unquestionably.

 

[ArgueEverything]

Our initial donation was only $10 million. America has not said that they are not going to contribute more money to the disaster?
Tell me, why all of a sudden is the world bitching that America is not getting involved in something full steam ahead?
Does nothing please you people?

Dude, if Australia's initial donation was $10 million, and America's initial donation was $15, one of those countries should seriously be embarassed, and i'll give you a hint: its not Australia.

To answer your question, the world is bitching because America is the richest nation in the world, and it should have been forking out a lot more than a measly 15 million.

No you're right. We'd be speaking Russian if Stalin got his way, god bless the little dear.
Your sentence doesn't make sense. "Its a bit disingenuous to say that France and certain European nations never seem to do anything. In 2003, the US government $16.2 billion dollars, compared to the EU's $37.1 billion dollars."
What exactly did they do in 2003 apart from $16 billion dollars?

Stalin never tried to export his revolution to the West, as any serious student of Russian history would be aware. He did, however, help the Allies out enormously during World War 2, so according to your earlier logic, we should cut him some slack and thank him that we aren't speaking German. Just like Europe should (according to you) ignore all the bad things America does, since America (begrudgingly) helped them in a war 60 years ago.

America gives 16.2 billion in development aid each year, the EU gives 37.1 billion, demolishing your earlier claim that Europe does "nothing"

 

[katie_tully]

Dude, if Australia's initial donation was $10 million, and America's initial donation was $15, one of those countries should seriously be embarassed, and i'll give you a hint: its not Australia.

To answer your question, the world is bitching because America is the richest nation in the world, and it should have been forking out a lot more than a measly 15 million.



Stalin never tried to export his revolution to the West, as any serious student of Russian history would be aware. He did, however, help the Allies out enormously during World War 2, so according to your earlier logic, we should cut him some slack and thank him that we aren't speaking German. Just like Europe should (according to you) ignore all the bad things America does, since America (begrudgingly) helped them in a war 60 years ago.

America gives 16.2 billion in development aid each year, the EU gives 37.1 billion, demolishing your earlier claim that Europe does "nothing"

America is the richest nation in the world? Oh but didn't somebody 10 minutes ago post that the 5 most richest nations in the world are in Europe, therefore wouldn't that mean that America does not have to contribute as much?
Their initial donation was $15 million?. Ours was $10. They had a naval fleet there way before we had one there. For your misguided information, America's initial relief effort was $35 million, not $15 million.
Bush actually spent $2.4 billion dollars in aid in 2004, which is quite a different area from "development aid"
The Bush government also added it would contribute more money to the relief effort as soon as damage assessments had been completed.
The Bush administration had to assess the situation before jumping in and going public. I seem to remember that Howards speech wasn't anything to write home about.

The American contribution during all major disasters is at 23-25% of all international aid.

So he didn't make a public speech until 3 days later, so what? Should we beat Bush into a puddle because of that? Half of these nations want nothing more than to blow America to the shithouse, but suddenly America is to drop to it's knees imediately?

 

[katie_tully]

that's $24 billion too, not 2.4

 

[katie_tully]

In conclusion to you all;

America sent 2 carriers, 7 water carriers, a hospital ship and medical staff, as well as an initial donation of $35 million within 72 hours.

Secondly, I do not see why Bush should come off holidays to make a public announcement, especially before full figures were realised. If I remember correctly, within three days the toll had only been estimated at 48,000 not 300,000.

America makes up for 25% of all international disaster aid, that is not including your "developmental aid".

All you want is another excuse to bash Bush, but it's always amusing to watch you take the first figures channel 9 produces without doing other research.
Go home.

 

[ArgueEverything]

America is the richest nation in the world? Oh but didn't somebody 10 minutes ago post that the 5 most richest nations in the world are in Europe, therefore wouldn't that mean that America does not have to contribute as much?

Whoever posted that was wrong. America is the richest nation in the world.

Their initial donation was $15 million?. Ours was $10. They had a naval fleet there way before we had one there. For your misguided information, America's initial relief effort was $35 million, not $15 million.
Bush actually spent $2.4 billion dollars in aid in 2004, which is quite a different area from "development aid"
The Bush government also added it would contribute more money to the relief effort as soon as damage assessments had been completed.
The Bush administration had to assess the situation before jumping in and going public. I seem to remember that Howards speech wasn't anything to write home about.

No, for YOUR misguided information, America's initial relief effort was $15 million. This was later raised to $35 million. Please don't make me link a source to prove that, because that would be very humiliating for you. No one likes their pseudo-corrections being corrected, but its especially bad with a neat internet link accompanying it.

I still don't comprehend why you are comparing Australia's contribution to America's.

Bush's $2.4 billion dollars of aid in 2004 went mostly to Iraq and Afghanistan. Thanks, George...bomb the shit of a country then make a measly attempt to rebuild it. That's not "aid", that's decency.

As for "assessing" the situation, that hardly takes days and days. There was a tsunami, tens of thousands died, millions homeless. What more assessment was needed? More importantly, why did the US - but not other countries - need to make an assessment? Sounds like this whole "assessment" bs is just a cover for being as stingy as possible. Also, there's still no explanation for why it took three days for Bush to crawl out of his Texas ranch and make a statement on the disaster (other than the fact that Bush doesn't a clue about statesmanship)

So he didn't make a public speech until 3 days later, so what? Should we beat Bush into a puddle because of that? Half of these nations want nothing more than to blow America to the shithouse, but suddenly America is to drop to it's knees imediately? .

Indonesia and Sri Lanka and Thailand, which account for over 110 000 of the 150 000 confirmed dead, have armies which America helps to TRAIn. I don't know where you got the idea that "half these nations" are antagonistic towards the US, but its blatantly absurd. Almost all governments in the South Asian and SE Asian region are pro-US.