Applied Finance/Commerce at MQ suitable for Investment Banking? (3 Viewers)

[asi9]

Just becuase someone did great in high school and got an ATAR like 95+ then went to USYD or UNSW. Well that doesn't mean they will necessarily preform to the same high standards at university or in the workforce.

A good GPA or WAM will be a good indicator plus experience. Other than the University be GO8 or not which should not even be up for consideration when applying for any job.

Too bad the people that look at your resume in Australia do look at your university and have biases toward Go8 with all their campus recruitment events and will continue to reach out to those schools year after year because on average the kids at Go8 are smarter than kids at non-Go8, especially when there's thousands of viable candidates and they only need to fill a class of ~10 people. Does it necessarily mean only people from Go8 are qualified for banking? Definitely not. Is life unfair? Yeah, it can be.

 

[Simorgh]

If you have anything to back what you say then go ahead (Any studies, articles, sources...). Give me a source where is says on average people at G08 universities are smarter than kids at non-GO8. Just becuase of the higher ATAR requirements? Well ATAR doesn't test intelligence but merely hard work and effort.

At the end of the day Australia lacks top-flight universities comparable with US institutions like Harvard, Princeton and MIT. GO8 Universities are no where comparable with these Birtish and American higher end instituions which have much tougher requirements to get in. Neither do the G08 act as an Australian compromise to these top Universities.

What do you have to say for this?

Elite Group of Eight universities outperformed on graduate earnings, says study

There is no earnings advantage to attending a sandstone university compared with less prestigious institutions, a major economic study has found.

The latest Household, Income and Labour Dynamics in Australia survey found graduates from the elite Group of Eight universities earn no more on average than those who attended regional universities and less than those attending other universities. The controversial finding has been disputed by the Group of Eight universities, which tend to require higher entrance scores and perform better on international rankings.


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...uate-earnings-says-study-20150715-gicxj5.html

 

[BandSixFix]

Did you even read it LOL - the whole thing is a basically a criticism of the whole survey

 

[Simorgh]

Did you even read it LOL - the whole thing is a basically a criticism of the whole survey

Funny thing is if you reserached a little further the survey was done by a G08 University themselves, the University of Melbourne. LOL!

The only criticism is from the G08. If I were in their position I would also try to criticise this survey is everyway possible to defend their University's so called prestige and reputation. This survey leaves such a bad stain on them so they will obviously put their futile efforts into criticising it.

 

[BandSixFix]

Funny thing is if you reserached a little further the survey was done by a G08 University themselves, the University of Melbourne. LOL!

The only criticism is from the G08. If I were in their position I would also try to criticise this survey is everyway possible to defend their University's so called prestige and reputation. This survey leaves such a bad stain on them so they will obviously put their futile efforts into criticising it.

Dude we get it, you wanna go Macq holy shit

 

[Simorgh]

Dude we get it, you wanna go Macq holy shit

You totally lost it man aha. That article I posted is not criticism of itself as I pointed out.

Besides just dont get how these Universities other than GO8 keep getting dogged out and its students keep getting the label of being dumb. These universities are all equavilent in terms of Undergrad in Australia. This is not America or Europe here!

I don't want to go Macquarie as their courses don't interest me at this point of time. But I don't accept how that how going to Macquarie or UTS is any different than going to UNSW or USYD. If you think prestige matters than shove it up your ass.

 

[sida1049]

If you think prestige matters than shove it up your ass.

These universities are all equavilent in terms of Undergrad in Australia. This is not America or Europe here!

Okay.

 

[sida1049]

You totally lost it man aha. That article I posted is not criticism of itself as I pointed out.

Besides just dont get how these Universities other than GO8 keep getting dogged out and its students keep getting the label of being dumb. These universities are all equavilent in terms of Undergrad in Australia. This is not America or Europe here!

I don't want to go Macquarie as their courses don't interest me at this point of time. But I don't accept how that how going to Macquarie or UTS is any different than going to UNSW or USYD. If you think prestige matters than shove it up your ass.

Now for my more serious response.

You'd be surprised at just how much cut-offs influence the cohort of courses. People who get into courses with higher cutoffs generally are more determined and ambitious about their studies, and this not only has a positive effect on the student, but also on the cohort as a whole. Conversely, people who get into courses with lower cutoffs generally are less determined and ambitious. Let's generalise this statement further: anything that is harder to get into will generally attract more ambitious individuals.

Not sure about you, but I went to a public comprehensive school. And while the cohort of our school isn't the worst out there (we're actually one of the highest ranking public comprehensive schools), compared to selective schools, our cohort is significantly less ambitious and studious.

Similarly, workplaces which are difficult to get into tend also to attract more ambitious individuals. The tutoring centre I currently work at is very easy to gain employment in, and hence compared to more notable tutoring centres with far more strict and exhaustive employment processes, our workplace tend to attract more bludge-y tutors and not too impressive.

And hence, as you can imagine (and will experience in a couple of years) just how different the cohorts are between courses with significantly differing cutoffs. The advanced mathematics courses at USYD tend to be populated with students with ATARs over 95, while people who get into the first year economics courses only need an ATAR of around 85 (or lower, considering flexible entry), and there is a very large gap in the attitudes between the two cohorts. Lecture and tutorial attendance for economics dropped pathetically (the last economics tutorial had less than half attendance, despite being the final tutorial before the midsemester exam on the same day), whereas the advanced maths cohort still has a very high attendance rate and far more studious. And while this is only one example, you can expect the same between any two courses with a significant gap in entry difficulty.

So while the quality of teaching and facilities and whatnot may be similar across all universities, the student bodies and environments vary very significantly and consistently across different courses, and this variation is very much nontrivial (as you have seen this already with phenomenon outside tertiary education).

 

[Simorgh]

Sida1049 you have a point. I never thought of it in this way but you are right. I didn't look at it this deep.

Out of all the posts here this is the only good one, your analysis is just superb.

But can't people change from the time they did the HSC to being in University? Or do most retain much of the same dedication and hardwork they had in high school?

 

[asi9]

If you have anything to back what you say then go ahead (Any studies, articles, sources...). Give me a source where is says on average people at G08 universities are smarter than kids at non-GO8. Just becuase of the higher ATAR requirements? Well ATAR doesn't test intelligence but merely hard work and effort.

At the end of the day Australia lacks top-flight universities comparable with US institutions like Harvard, Princeton and MIT. GO8 Universities are no where comparable with these Birtish and American higher end instituions which have much tougher requirements to get in. Neither do the G08 act as an Australian compromise to these top Universities.

What do you have to say for this?

Elite Group of Eight universities outperformed on graduate earnings, says study

There is no earnings advantage to attending a sandstone university compared with less prestigious institutions, a major economic study has found.

The latest Household, Income and Labour Dynamics in Australia survey found graduates from the elite Group of Eight universities earn no more on average than those who attended regional universities and less than those attending other universities. The controversial finding has been disputed by the Group of Eight universities, which tend to require higher entrance scores and perform better on international rankings.


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...uate-earnings-says-study-20150715-gicxj5.html

Someone that gets 99.95 and goes on to do USYD Com/LLB is obviously smarter than some 60 ATAR arts dropout at UWS. If you need a source for that then you're an idiot. I have no idea why you are trying to refute this point; maybe self-esteem issues because you go to a not so good high school and will struggle to get 95+ ATAR so you'll like to comfort yourself by thinking you're smarter than others, but just lack the "hard work and effort" people with higher ATARs have?

Also no idea why you're trying to bring in the Ivy Leagues/Oxbridge and other target schools into your argument - how does that help your case that non-Go8 is equivalent to Go8? Of course privilege matters, why else do banks target Go8 students with their recruitment events and not non-Go8?

RIP

 

[sida1049]

Sida1049 you have a point. I never thought of it in this way but you are right. I didn't look at it this deep.

Out of all the posts here this is the only good one, your analysis is just superb.

But can't people change from the time they did the HSC to being in University? Or do most retain much of the same dedication and hardwork they had in high school?

Yeah, I think a lot of people mature by the time they get into uni.

You're in Year 11 right? Have you noticed that comparing your cohort from Year 7 to Year 11, they have changed in some way? Have they, as a whole, become less childish and more mature and studious? I would expect so, and from Year 11 to the end of Year 12, people really mature up.

It's pretty much the same thing with uni; during first year, a lot of people have no idea what they want to do, lack motivation, not very dedicated to learning, spend a lot of time on stuff that probably aren't the wisest things to do, have immature perceptions, et cetera. As the years go on, as a whole (i.e. not looking at specific individuals, as everyone matures at their own pace), people typically become more focused in what they do, and think more rationally and into the long term. (Although when it comes to study habits and whatnot, it's less predictable because more commitments enter the lives of students in their senior years) And for this reason, many graduates from non-GO8 universities do have the same capacities as other graduates and may land in reasonable positions with potential for growth. The main difference between unis that employers consider, I suspect, is the amount of work and effort put into a degree, which may vary between uni to uni (e.g. some unis have higher cut-offs thus more competitive cohorts which require tougher assessments to satisfy, while other unis may receive less populous cohorts, meaning they'd have more of an incentive to not fail and dissuade the handful of students studying that particular course at that particular uni). This is also a good explanation for why postgraduate qualifications and experience are very attractive: because they signify a lot of work and effort, which corresponds to the capacity of that candidate in doing their job (it's an obvious statement, but it gives some credibility to this model).

 

[Simorgh]

I have no idea why you are trying to refute this point; maybe self-esteem issues because you go to a not so good high school and will struggle to get 95+ ATAR so you'll like to comfort yourself by thinking you're smarter than others, but just lack the "hard work and effort" people with higher ATARs have?

Trying to make it personal I see. You couldn't get your point across instead you bring up these assumptions.

Whatever you wish to believe. You will be surprised of how little you know.

You don't seem to get that a lot of people change, some turn out worse and some turn out for the better from where they were in High School. I am bias becuase I am an optimist, I see everyone as having the same potential and in the end accomplishing their goals. Everything else I made clear on my previous posts on this thread.

Besides I am not even keen on going to Macquarie as they don't offer the course I want to do. However USYD, UNSW, WSU, UON and UNE offer it so I am only aiming for those Universities. USYD and UNSW are pretty close to me so they will be my first preference whereas WSU and the rest are really far away from me.

For me prestige doesn't matter at all. Only if the Unis are within reasonable distance and have a decent course only will I go for them.

 

[RealiseNothing]

Whatever you wish to believe. You will be surprised of how little you know.

For me prestige doesn't matter at all. Only if the Unis are within reasonable distance and have a decent course only will I go for them.

He knows a lot more than a year 11'er lol.

Okay good for you prestige doesn't matter to you, but it definitely matters to everyone else.