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Are there too many Internationals at UNI these days? (3 Viewers)

Are there too many Internationals at UNI these days?

  • Yes- Too many Internationals

    Votes: 85 82.5%
  • No- Not enough Internationals

    Votes: 18 17.5%

  • Total voters
    103

koube0530

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AsyLum said:
Most probably because they won't be using english?
Maybe. But it's still an issue.

We're told to focus on the substance of the answers which is a fair call. But you've got to at least say it properly and not have tutors like me guessing what you really meant.

I don't penalise them so I guess the local students are disadvantaged in some way.
 

iamsickofyear12

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Most international students in my tutorials make absolutely no sense at all. I would understand them better if they just spoke Mandarin... and I don't speak Mandarin... they are that bad.

It's a good thing we do presentations with power point slides to guess from or else no one would have any idea what they were on about at all.
 

jb_nc

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Frigid said:
why the hell has somebody got to keep contributing to society after their degree? there is no justifiable principle to say that just because someone comes to Australia to study (at their own cost), they are forever indebted to this country.

moreover, you do realise, in the end, they are essentially subsidising our goddamn university system. your pity-little HECS don't mean anything compared to the full-fees they pay.

extending your argument, should Australian graduates be confined to work in Australia after they graduate? can they not pursue work opportunities overseas? if they can, then they are not paying Australian taxes or contributing to the economy.

just because i pay for the milk doesn't mean i have to buy the cow.
thanks i am glad the chinaman can come to our unis and pay for a degree, great stuff, gogo australia

ANYONE WHO DOESN'T LOVE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS IS A RACIST UNAPPRECIATIVE HYPOCRITE LONG LIVE MAO
 
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Conspirocy

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koube0530 said:
Maybe. But it's still an issue.

We're told to focus on the substance of the answers which is a fair call. But you've got to at least say it properly and not have tutors like me guessing what you really meant.

I don't penalise them so I guess the local students are disadvantaged in some way.
well I'm sure local students write an answer that is understandable, but they might still have an underlying meaning that might not jump out at the marker. But do you see them getting extra marks for it. I think it is ridiculous to say no I'm not going to penalise a student when I have to determine myself what points they are making.

All through uni students get comments about how their point was not made strongly, or clearly and the lose marks for that. How can you sit here and justify the way you mark. That's a complete joke.

Secondly how do you even know where the student is from. Do you look at their name; so are you saying that you assume any student with an asian name will write poorly? Also, does that mean Australian born people with asian names are given extra marks now via your system of marking because their ability to write in english displays more of an accomplishment. What a joke. You are a complete idiot. How can you mark like that?

This has persisted throughout uni, and people do nothing about it. It is the lecturers fault for implementing such policies and the universities. But most of all the blame should fall on the students for not making anyone accountable for their work. We get treated unfairly throughout uni, and we cop it. So I will stop complaining now and go back to copping it because one voice just doesn't get the job done.
 

iamsickofyear12

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Conspirocy said:
Secondly how do you even know where the student is from. Do you look at their name; so are you saying that you assume any student with an asian name will write poorly? Also, does that mean Australian born people with asian names are given extra marks now via your system of marking because their ability to write in english displays more of an accomplishment. What a joke. You are a complete idiot. How can you mark like that?
What if Australian born people changed their names..? would they get marked up in written assignments because they are assumed to be an international student... or do the markers have access to domestic/international student info and mark based on that?
 

Captain Gh3y

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It's the government's fault for corporatising the unis, since that makes the universities tell lecturers to tell tutors to mark like that because they need the international students' cash :D
 

iamsickofyear12

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Maybe they could mark fairly and evenly but to stop too many international students failing add extra categories between Fail and Pass like this...

High Distinction (HD)
Distinction (D)
Credit (C)
Pass (P)
Low Pass (LP)
Very Low Pass (VLP)
Fail (F)

So to fail you would need to be getting less than about 30%. If they can't get more than that then they really shouldn't be passing no matter how much money they are paying.
 

zab02

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The thing is that these Internationals that come to Australia are the ones that were not good enough to get into Uni's in their own country. Because of their rich parents and Australia's willingness to accept Cashed-up Students, they come here. To prevent them from dropping out, the Uni lowers the standards and therefore the degree loses its prestige and the local students suffer because of it.

The sad thing is the Uni's have become a business, its not there to provide education. It's there to make a profit.

How do you make a profit?, you cut costs- increase Tut and lecture sizes, so the cost per student is small and most of the paperwork has been outsourced online. Sure they have become efficient in providing education, the cost per student is small but is that really effective?

Increasing class sizes, increasing lecture sizes, reduced contact hours, increasing intake of full fee paying students has just worsened educational standards- degraded the piece of paper the degree is written on.

School was about providing education before, my old Year 12 coordinator said she finished 2 degree's and it didnt cost her a cent and back then they had tut classes which had to have less than 12 students. So now they have introduced fee's, increased them at every opportunity and provided a poorer standard of teaching then they did before. Talk about value for Customers. Now the Liberal government wants to bring Hecs fee's for Commerce to the top band which is equal to that with Law and allow Uni's to accept more full fee paying students. It's a sad inditement on this country, were we are now and the way we are heading.
 

PrinceHarry

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zab02 said:
Increasing class sizes, increasing lecture sizes, reduced contact hours, increasing intake of full fee paying students has just worsened educational standards- degraded the piece of paper the degree is written on.

School was about providing education before, my old Year 12 coordinator said she finished 2 degree's and it didnt cost her a cent and back then they had tut classes which had to have less than 12 students. So now they have introduced fee's, increased them at every opportunity and provided a poorer standard of teaching then they did before. Talk about value for Customers. Now the Liberal government wants to bring Hecs fee's for Commerce to the top band which is equal to that with Law and allow Uni's to accept more full fee paying students. It's a sad inditement on this country, were we are now and the way we are heading.
There are too many australian students in university who really should be in TAFE or head straight to work force. International students paying $16,000-50,000 deserve 1 tutor per 10 students where as australian students who did not pay tution fee deserve to be in a class of 100 with one tutor. You got what you pay for.:mad1:
 

koube0530

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Conspirocy said:
What a joke. You are a complete idiot. How can you mark like that?
I don't buy your 'the local student has some underlying meaning' point. If there's some underlying meaning then say it and you'll get rewarded for it. I also can't accept the point about local students being criticised for not making their argument strongly. I've never seen that happen. Maybe he really didn't make his point properly.

When I mark, I don't make a conscious decision about whether this person is an international student. The instructions are to reward marks for the substance of the answer. So if a local student with a British surname wrote poorly but I can work out what she meant, I won't penalise her for it.

There's a separate criteria for spelling, punctuation and grammar and marks (albeit very few marks) are deducted against that criteria. If you penalise somebody's understanding of the issues because of grammar/punctuation, then you are double counting the mistakes.

To finish off, you are a complete idiot.
 

PrinceHarry

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Bendent said:
yeah the ones that come here are serious crappy dumb people who can't make it in their own country but have rich parents.
The Good ones went to USA and UK where teaching standards are higher and entry requires much more stringent procedure such as TOEFL, SAT I,SAT II, GMAT which ensures that international students have the same knowlege and ability as domestic students. In australia they only have to pass their high school leaving certificate and get lousy 6 or 6.5 in IELTS.
 

Season

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Seriously how can you tell if they're not Australian? Its so rare to find an actual 3 generation back Australian around, and if they are then they probably won't look it.

I don't mind them, as long as I can understand them, they're A-Okay in my books. I mean pretty damn racist to say get out of our country... Its not like they're not working, they're probably working twice as hard, and paying 6 x as much. Why not let them stay.

ONly ones who REALLY piss me off are the stupid Indian International Full-Fee paying Medical students...

THEY SHOULD ALL DIE

I just think how unfair it is that a stupid Indian could pay their way into medicine... any stupid person could do it... just cos their parents have a couple of hundred grand to spare... the universities do it for the money I know, but it still bugs the crap out of me for this PARTICULAR degree

but yeah... that's probably just my whole jealousy thing going on

But anyway I live in ACT and I struggle to think of anyone who is pure Australian back 3 generations. So how can you really tell if they're internationals or not?
 

_dhj_

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zab02 said:
The thing is that these Internationals that come to Australia are the ones that were not good enough to get into Uni's in their own country. Because of their rich parents and Australia's willingness to accept Cashed-up Students, they come here. To prevent them from dropping out, the Uni lowers the standards and therefore the degree loses its prestige and the local students suffer because of it.

The sad thing is the Uni's have become a business, its not there to provide education. It's there to make a profit.

How do you make a profit?, you cut costs- increase Tut and lecture sizes, so the cost per student is small and most of the paperwork has been outsourced online. Sure they have become efficient in providing education, the cost per student is small but is that really effective?

Increasing class sizes, increasing lecture sizes, reduced contact hours, increasing intake of full fee paying students has just worsened educational standards- degraded the piece of paper the degree is written on.

School was about providing education before, my old Year 12 coordinator said she finished 2 degree's and it didnt cost her a cent and back then they had tut classes which had to have less than 12 students. So now they have introduced fee's, increased them at every opportunity and provided a poorer standard of teaching then they did before. Talk about value for Customers. Now the Liberal government wants to bring Hecs fee's for Commerce to the top band which is equal to that with Law and allow Uni's to accept more full fee paying students. It's a sad inditement on this country, were we are now and the way we are heading.
qft.
 

turtleface

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Some insights into exam marking from my experience this semester:

- Generally people with neater hand writing are treated better subconsciously. Usually these are female students.

- Generally if you write more it looks like you understand the topic more (unless it's total shit in which case you will get no reward for your effort)

- Generally people who are in a failing position are treated better

- Often the people who are in a failing position have that really small comical style handwriting

- Often they are international students
 
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what971

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Internationals are alright. As long as you don't partner up with them for group assignments. They are fucking awful. Always try to partner up with fellow non-fobs, although this can be hard in a subject like accounting.
 
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Yeah, it's not fair. Intl's just get their degree and go home, why not just do it there? It sickens me a
 

Captain Gh3y

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what971 said:
Internationals are alright. As long as you don't partner up with them for group assignments. They are fucking awful. Always try to partner up with fellow non-fobs, although this can be hard in a subject like accounting.
You'll always be a fob to me :D
 

Fish Sauce

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Season said:
But anyway I live in ACT and I struggle to think of anyone who is pure Australian back 3 generations. So how can you really tell if they're internationals or not?
I am.

And now I live here! :rofl:

As for the thread. I think it's wrong to say that we're getting the "dropouts" - competition is insane in many of the countries that the international students are coming from. Not being able to get in there doesn't mean they don't deserve further education. I do, however, think that universities may be relying too heavily on international students and not giving local students enough opportunity. It's a tough call though. Many of my friends here are considered international students and yet kick my ass in English (despite me constantly trying to fix their grammar, :p), and they definitely should be allowed into Australian universities.

I don't see a huge need for change, but I suppose I haven't really experienced the system.
 

chucknthem

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HSC 2008...what do you know about internationals at UNI? lol

Getting through HSC ESL english is fine imo. It would be too cruel to force them to go through regular HSC english. :eek:
 

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