Articled clerkship positions (1 Viewer)

[twistedtigers]

Hi

I know most of you here are aiming for top tier jobs, but I have come to the gradual realisation that the working hours in the good firms will be impossible for me to manage.

The small bottom tier firm I currently work with have offered me an articled clerkship when I graduate in 2011. The only problem is that the wages seem very low.

It's a country firm of 5 solicitors and the working hours are strictly 9 to 5, so I understand there will be no exciting pay offer, but I am thinking they may be trying to take advantage of the fact they think I won't relocate to secure a better position - which I will.

I have secured a few top student awards, a golden key, decent grades and have legal experience. I have a good rapport with clients - some have asked for me to take over their files thinking I am qualified (which may have caused some resentment from the lawyers). Just trying to explain I'm not going bottom tier because that is all my grades will let me do. It is a lifestyle choice due to family obligations.

Does anyone know where I can get information on what a reasonable hourly rate/annual salary would be? All I can find are estimations for the mid to top tier firms and I understand that is not at all relevant due to the fact those firms expect you to sweat blood for them and I wouldn't be.

Would $40k minimum be an unreasonble expectation?

 

[bored at work]

Hi

I know most of you here are aiming for top tier jobs, but I have come to the gradual realisation that the working hours in the good firms will be impossible for me to manage.

The small bottom tier firm I currently work with have offered me an articled clerkship when I graduate in 2011. The only problem is that the wages seem very low.

It's a country firm of 5 solicitors and the working hours are strictly 9 to 5, so I understand there will be no exciting pay offer, but I am thinking they may be trying to take advantage of the fact they think I won't relocate to secure a better position - which I will.

I have secured a few top student awards, a golden key, decent grades and have legal experience. I have a good rapport with clients - some have asked for me to take over their files thinking I am qualified (which may have caused some resentment from the lawyers). Just trying to explain I'm not going bottom tier because that is all my grades will let me do. It is a lifestyle choice due to family obligations.

Does anyone know where I can get information on what a reasonable hourly rate/annual salary would be? All I can find are estimations for the mid to top tier firms and I understand that is not at all relevant due to the fact those firms expect you to sweat blood for them and I wouldn't be.

Would $40k minimum be an unreasonble expectation?

Not unreasonable at all.
Btw not all top tier/mid tier positions include long hours, it does depend on the practice group that you're in. In the advisory groups the hours are very reasonable indeed, something else to think about.

 

[avant]

top tier firms: 60-65 / 70-75 / 85 / 95
mid tier firms: 50-55 / 65 / 75 / 85

graduate year / 1st year lawyer / 2nd / 3rd

roughly. Not including bonus (if any). Not including super. 2009/10 first and second years might be getting pay freezes. But that is an estimate.

In your situation I would push 45k at minimum. Unless there is some huge pay gap between city and country that I don't know of.

You can get 40k at any paper pushing occupation. Sure, I'd take it if I had no options. But it seems you do.

 

[bored at work]

Figures look accurate but they do include super, all figures quoted in relation to salaries in the law industry will tend to have super included.

 

[BOSnewbie]

Check firmspy for insider info on salaries - they have salary info for most of the Big 6 there.

top tier firms: 60-65 / 70-75 / 85 / 95
mid tier firms: 50-55 / 65 / 75 / 85

graduate year / 1st year lawyer / 2nd / 3rd

roughly. Not including bonus (if any). Not including super. 2009/10 first and second years might be getting pay freezes. But that is an estimate.

In your situation I would push 45k at minimum. Unless there is some huge pay gap between city and country that I don't know of.

You can get 40k at any paper pushing occupation. Sure, I'd take it if I had no options. But it seems you do.

 

[Baiku]

I know people working at boutique firms in the CBD for $35k-$40k graduate wage - wouldn't be surprised if you ended up on $30k...

 

[twistedtigers]

I was offered $35k but have since found out there is now a proper award in WA. The HR person I was talking to at another small firm has offered me a position Jan 2011 at $45k minimum, but told more likely to be $50.

Just thought I'd let others know because I have found it so hard and confusing trying to work out what a fair deal is. The firm I currently work for are apparently not paying me award rates, but hey, it's still experience...

 

[Omnidragon]

Hi

I know most of you here are aiming for top tier jobs, but I have come to the gradual realisation that the working hours in the good firms will be impossible for me to manage.

The small bottom tier firm I currently work with have offered me an articled clerkship when I graduate in 2011. The only problem is that the wages seem very low.

It's a country firm of 5 solicitors and the working hours are strictly 9 to 5, so I understand there will be no exciting pay offer, but I am thinking they may be trying to take advantage of the fact they think I won't relocate to secure a better position - which I will.

I have secured a few top student awards, a golden key, decent grades and have legal experience. I have a good rapport with clients - some have asked for me to take over their files thinking I am qualified (which may have caused some resentment from the lawyers). Just trying to explain I'm not going bottom tier because that is all my grades will let me do. It is a lifestyle choice due to family obligations.

Does anyone know where I can get information on what a reasonable hourly rate/annual salary would be? All I can find are estimations for the mid to top tier firms and I understand that is not at all relevant due to the fact those firms expect you to sweat blood for them and I wouldn't be.

Would $40k minimum be an unreasonble expectation?

I worked at a top-tier firm and left every day before 6pm. They loved me.

My friend also did summer vacation at a top-tier firm. Got out on the dot everyday
at 5pm. Got an offer.

The people busting their chops usually are frowned upon.

With your background you should've realised this without me telling you... seriously.

Woops wrong emoticon

 

[twistedtigers]

The people busting their chops usually are frowned upon.

With your background you should've realised this without me telling you... seriously.

Explain to me with your superior intellect why I should have realised this? Do you have some sort of psychic ability unit at your university?

I have friends working both in top and mid tier firms and they are definitely not walking out that door at 6pm. They are also working pretty regular Saturdays to get their billing hours up without being distracted by clients.

 

[bored at work]

I worked at a top-tier firm and left every day before 6pm. They loved me.

My friend also did summer vacation at a top-tier firm. Got out on the dot everyday
at 5pm. Got an offer.

The people busting their chops usually are frowned upon.

With your background you should've realised this without me telling you... seriously.

Woops wrong emoticon

Meh, gfc affected or your group didn't think enough of you to give you any work.

 

[flamearrows]

Meh, gfc affected or your group didn't think enough of you to give you any work.

Oooh, burn.

True too, given the widely known requirement for billable hours per day.

 

[Omnidragon]

Explain to me with your superior intellect why I should have realised this? Do you have some sort of psychic ability unit at your university?

I have friends working both in top and mid tier firms and they are definitely not walking out that door at 6pm. They are also working pretty regular Saturdays to get their billing hours up without being distracted by clients.

Lmao... look at that attitude.

If you're at mid-tier law firm and working regular Saturdays, that's pretty sad. I was in investment banking and wasn't working regular Saturdays

 

[Omnidragon]

Meh, gfc affected or your group didn't think enough of you to give you any work.

Yaaa that's why I / my friend got offers... hmmmmmmmmm
Learn to think before you speak. You learned that in prep yea?

 

[flamearrows]

Yaaa that's why I / my friend got offers... hmmmmmmmmm
Learn to think before you speak. You learned that in prep yea?

I got an offer in a top-tier firm and I did around 5 hours of legal work a week, with the remaining time spent on the internet. It's a culture thing. They give offers to everyone who doesn't majorly screw it up.

 

[bored at work]

Yaaa that's why I / my friend got offers... hmmmmmmmmm
Learn to think before you speak. You learned that in prep yea?

Yeah because getting an offer means that you've made it? There is that thing about actually being good at your job.

As a junior, if you're in an transactional group and you're not getting any work, it means that either the group in general doesn't have work or that you sucked and they prefer to give it to someone else. In fact it's a common tactic to get people to leave, freeze them out.

I bet you didn't even last 6 months in that firm.

 

[avant]

a lot of egos in this topic. can't find enough colleagues at work to circle jerk?

 

[bored at work]

a lot of egos in this topic. can't find enough colleagues at work to circle jerk?

So a circle jerk will stop you from having an ego? Probably why you don't have an ego then.