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Athenians or spartans??? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dougie88
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xeuyrawp
Guest
Athens. .dougie88 said:
Sparta, leading by example at Thermopylae and their military strength at Plataea that crippled the Persian army..don't get me wrong, Athens played a strong part too, awesome vistory at Salamis and they did good work in the siege work at Plataea.
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xeuyrawp
Guest
I was thinking exactly the same thing, although I thought (and I'm sure I either read or was told) that the battle of Plateia was the most crippling part of the Persian war. Furthermore, the Athenian influence in Thermopylae has been reduced a lot. Although Leonidas led his army into the field, Themistokles was the instigator of the strategy and the overall planning of the thing.scraneth said:
Not to mention the fact that Thermopylae wasn't a victory for the Greeks, but rather only stalling the Persians. Like you said, it was a great piece of propaganda for the Spartans, but it really was nothign more than that. I subscribe to the theory that military morale through example is a minor influence over the total battle. I think a good commander on the ground is far more important. We just think that, because we would want to know that "we're winning the war", they would. Not true. Most soldiers prepared for death before the battle as if it was their last.
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xeuyrawp
Guest
I'll add at this point that I've only studied Greek social history, not political/battle history- I'm at least half wrong 
Re Athens and Sparta in Persian Wars
Hi!
This is a contentious issue and the exam requires you to come to a conclusion after
an examination of the sources. Look at what we are told by the sources about each battle plus the manoeuvering of respective leaders behind the scenes at organising the loyalist Greek resistance.
Have a look at Thucydides I. 72-74 where the Athenian delegates reply to the Spartan ultimatum prior during a debate prior to the start of the Peloponnesian War.
The Athenians emphasise their role in the Persian Wars, especially their roles at Marathon and Salamis, claiming that they provided most of the ships and that "the courage, the daring we showed were without parallel..." (I. 74).
Another source, though a literary one, is Aeschylus' tragedy "The Persians" which again strongly affirms the success of the Athenians and was a contemporary work. Beware, however, that both writers were pro-Athenian and this may skew the facts somewhat.
Cheers,
Magister.
Hi!
This is a contentious issue and the exam requires you to come to a conclusion after
an examination of the sources. Look at what we are told by the sources about each battle plus the manoeuvering of respective leaders behind the scenes at organising the loyalist Greek resistance.
Have a look at Thucydides I. 72-74 where the Athenian delegates reply to the Spartan ultimatum prior during a debate prior to the start of the Peloponnesian War.
The Athenians emphasise their role in the Persian Wars, especially their roles at Marathon and Salamis, claiming that they provided most of the ships and that "the courage, the daring we showed were without parallel..." (I. 74).
Another source, though a literary one, is Aeschylus' tragedy "The Persians" which again strongly affirms the success of the Athenians and was a contemporary work. Beware, however, that both writers were pro-Athenian and this may skew the facts somewhat.
Cheers,
Magister.
white lady
No Motivation Whatsoever
In my opinion both played their part in the defeat of the Persians. Therefore I can't really say Athens or Sparta.
cartzz
New Member
Neutral
There's nothing wrong with performing an assessment which results in a neutral outcome. ie - if you were writing an essay on the Persian Wars, you could easily look at each battle, assessing the influence of Spartans/Athenians on those battles then come to a conclusion at the end of each paragraph before a grandscale conclusion at the end of the essay.
In terms of the argument itself, i am in favour of the neutral idea (BOTH played a major role in different areas eg Athens = navy, Sparta = leadership) --> however, if you really want an answer, it has to be Athens as they gained so much ascendancy in this period. By the end of the Persian Wars, they are the ones who everyone wants as the Greek Hegemon, they are the ones who continue the fight against Persia through the Delian League.
Just a thought
There's nothing wrong with performing an assessment which results in a neutral outcome. ie - if you were writing an essay on the Persian Wars, you could easily look at each battle, assessing the influence of Spartans/Athenians on those battles then come to a conclusion at the end of each paragraph before a grandscale conclusion at the end of the essay.
In terms of the argument itself, i am in favour of the neutral idea (BOTH played a major role in different areas eg Athens = navy, Sparta = leadership) --> however, if you really want an answer, it has to be Athens as they gained so much ascendancy in this period. By the end of the Persian Wars, they are the ones who everyone wants as the Greek Hegemon, they are the ones who continue the fight against Persia through the Delian League.
Just a thought
iamthecoolest
New Member
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- HSC
- 2005
it seems that athens had sacrificed more, as they lost their city etc. whereas the spartans only really commited troops to the fight. also the ability of themistocles is a big part when looking at this