loooong msg
KfWang said:
1) if god is forgiving, how come we got kicked out of this "paradise" i.e. garden of eden then?
2) one of the ten rules to control the masses say that people should not kill each other, but how come when david killed goliath he was hailed a hero?
3) if a mass murderer kills a large amount of people without them being aware, but gets caught and sentenced to death, but pleads for forgivness before death.. doesnt that kind of abuse the whole "forgiveness" situation?.. cos the murderer would be forgiven and go to heaven, and his victims who didnt have time to pray might go to hell...
my 2....wateva
1) (edit: we didnt get kicked out, we chose to leave by our actions that told God we wanted to run things our way, we hid from God cos we were ashamed, he found us, confronted us, and set up a way for us to still live even tho we deserved to be disconnected from God permanently.. i think you have the whole wrong image of some nazi, angry God .. when really he gave us a choice, we told him we wanted to rule our own lives, and instead of wiping us out, he continued to love and nurture and protect us and all the things we need for life, gave adam and eve clothes to hide thier nakedness that was shame brought on from their sin, and continues to sustain his creation etc. you should be more appreciative really....)
God IS forgiving, but God is also JUST. and therefore a price had to be paid for our forgiveness. otherwise there would be no justice. Forgiveness costs everything for the forgiver and nothing for the forgiven. It cost God his son. He was fully human and fully God, as through one man sin entered the world through one man sin would be dealt with. Also, it was important Jesus was also fully God as well, otherwise it wouldnt of been fair, if any joe bloe payed the cost. the punishment for sin is death=eternal seperation from God. the physical crucification on the cross is an outward reflection of the spiritual cost Jesus paid for our sins, disconnection from God. The point tho is that Jesus was raised from the Dead, hence our sins WERE paid for, because he was risen, and so to, can we be risen with him "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, then you will be saved" Romans 10:9
2) why pick that example? there was heaps more battles? wall of jericho? cannan? etc etc. oh well thats not the point...
I dont think the point of the story was that he killed someone, it was that he did it with a slingshot... cos he trusted in God and used what he had... teaches us to use the gifts and abilities God gives us for his purposes ... and no one is insignificant... but this does raise your point.. which i think is along the lines of, how can he encourage someone to kill another... (thou shall not murder.... i think david was not in murder context tho, he was protecting the people) well he doesnt think IT* (edit) is right. Cain and Abel? remember that story? basically after sin entered the world, earth was destined to get more corrupted and decay (which actually is in agreement with maths and science, that the universe is decaying... thermodynamics etc.. thats another thread..) but God had to hold it together and had a very long plan for us to learn how much we need him and etc, i dunno his divine plan. but point is.. that the people of that time begged for a King, and every new King God gave em always got corrupted and went sour cos the King, was just human after all, and stuffed up. The David and Goliath thing was in response to the people saying they wanted a new King, and that was God's way of bringing David to them... he has to work in our world even tho he is not a part of it.
3) ok this is based on some theology of certain religions... particular catholics and repentence.. which i'm really not in agreements with.... but like i said before (ref:Romans 10:9) its not about making sure you confess every little sin, God forgives you before you do it, because Jesus paid the price for every sin EVER done and that WILL ever be done. so the sin is already dealt with, you just have to believe that. the murderer thing.. alright well you firstly have to realise that God sees all sin (which by definition is rebelling against God..not just 10 comandments, but the attitude of the heart) equally. A lie = murder = swearing in Gods name=jealousy... they all have equal weighting, which is a hard concept to grasp in our society/culture i know... When Jesus was dying on the cross he was on the hill of Calvry with two other criminals, and one of them believed Jesus was the King and asked him to "remember me" and jesus said " i tell you the truth today you will be with me in paradise" so its obvious that even the nastiest of criminals (crucifixion was reserved for the worst law breakers) in our society/culture get forgiveness the same. Continueing on from that... it is because God loves all of us equally. There is nothing you can do to make him love you more, and nothing you can do to make him love you less. yep, no matter what you've done orsaid or thought, he loves you the same as me, same as mother teresa, same as everyone. thats why he wants you to be with him forever. you are not an accident, you were designed for Gods pleasure (to delight in you) and for his purpose.
EDIT: there are two things existing now that were never in God's perfect creation, and they are SHAME and PRIDE. they are the two things that keep us from acknowledging God as King, Lord and Saviour.
