Australian Citizenship Test (2 Viewers)

[katie_tully]

but it should ultimately be the choice of the person wanting citizenship - hard lifestyle with no English at all, or knowing English and having a better one?

I'm the descendent of Italian immigrants. I disagree.

If you are moving to a country where you know you don't speak the predominant language, it should be a requirement that you attempt to learn a basic level of English. Not wanting to is not an excuse.
If you've been overseas, and I'll use France as an example, if you don't speak a minimal amount of their language they ignore you. It's insulting. Fair enough if you've made an attempt and you suck a little, but it's completely different from not even attempting in the first place.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

it should ultimately be the choice of the person wanting citizenship - hard lifestyle with no English at all, or knowing English and having a better one?

I would agree with that if not speaking english only impacted the individual who couldn't speak it, but that is obviously not the case. There are plenty of situations where other people have to communicate with these non-english speaking people and it is impossible.

Enough people not speaking english creates a divide in society that is easily avoidable. You may think that is not a big deal but I think it is. Everyone should be able to interact with everyone else. We shouldn't have these little communities where outsiders aren't welcome (not deliberately, but because they can't communicate with anyone).

 

[Martyno1]

I'm the descendent of Italian immigrants. I disagree.

If you are moving to a country where you know you don't speak the predominant language, it should be a requirement that you attempt to learn a basic level of English. Not wanting to is not an excuse.
If you've been overseas, and I'll use France as an example, if you don't speak a minimal amount of their language they ignore you. It's insulting. Fair enough if you've made an attempt and you suck a little, but it's completely different from not even attempting in the first place.

I know that it's a general consensus around the world that French people ignore you if you speak English to them, but it's not true at all, it's a dumb stereotype. Probably about 5% of the people you'd encounter in PARIS, not the whole of France, are like that.

 

[katie_tully]

Having been to France I know it's not true of the entire population, but I know many find it insulting when people come to their respective countries without having made an attemptm to learn the language. Same in Italy, more so with the older generations.

Try getting a job in a country where you don't even speak a basic level of the home language. It's impossible, if not extremely difficult. And that is the whole point of people migrating to Australia - better prospects.
Learning the home language is a basic form of integration and choosing not to shows you are not committed to your new home country.

 

[banco55]

One of the reasons the US is more successful at integrating immimgrants then Western Europe is US has much less welfare. In the US you can't sit home unemployed for years and get benefits like you can in many Western European countries so immigrants have to get jobs and through their jobs they have to converse with people in english. New immigrants should have strict bars on being able to appy for centerlink benefits for a period after they get citizenship.

 

[Martyno1]

Having been to France I know it's not true of the entire population, but I know many find it insulting when people come to their respective countries without having made an attemptm to learn the language. Same in Italy, more so with the older generations.

Try getting a job in a country where you don't even speak a basic level of the home language. It's impossible, if not extremely difficult. And that is the whole point of people migrating to Australia - better prospects.
Learning the home language is a basic form of integration and choosing not to shows you are not committed to your new home country.

I agree with this, like I said if you want to live here you should know English or have someone help you around everywhere, I just believe that people can make their own decisions. Do you think that an old person would need to learn English to live here?

 

[katie_tully]

Do you think that an old person would need to learn English to live here?

Absolutely, and I've seen first hand what happens when an elderly person doesn't speak English. They still have expenses and services they require and it's ridiculous to expect there to be somebody else to act as a translator or mediator. One woman I knew of who was 86 had to get her son in law to ring up Telstra over a bill discrepancy because she didn't speak English and Telstra refused to speak to him because they didn't have permission for him to act on her behalf.

Isolated incident obviously, but it shows the logistical problems behind 'getting somebody else' to do stuff for you.

60 years ago the influx of European migrants coming to Australia had no choice but to learn English or learn a way to communicate effectively, as the services for non English speaking migrants just didn't exist. They exist now but I still don't see it as an excuse for people to blatantly refuse to learn English

 

[jb_nc]

(1) Which one of these is a responsibility for every Australian citizenship?

- Renounce their citzenship of any other country
- Serve in Australian Diplomatic Missions overseas
- Join with Australians to defend Australia and its way of life, should the need arise

what the fuck

 

[Martyno1]

Absolutely, and I've seen first hand what happens when an elderly person doesn't speak English. They still have expenses and services they require and it's ridiculous to expect there to be somebody else to act as a translator or mediator. One woman I knew of who was 86 had to get her son in law to ring up Telstra over a bill discrepancy because she didn't speak English and Telstra refused to speak to him because they didn't have permission for him to act on her behalf.

Isolated incident obviously, but it shows the logistical problems behind 'getting somebody else' to do stuff for you.

60 years ago the influx of European migrants coming to Australia had no choice but to learn English or learn a way to communicate effectively, as the services for non English speaking migrants just didn't exist. They exist now but I still don't see it as an excuse for people to blatantly refuse to learn English

Well people above the age of 60 don't need to learn English to come into this country (the test doesn't need to be taken by people >=60). Also, I don't see why/how someone with no English knowledge would put their name down for Telstra. They should gt someone who does to do that...

 

[campbellleo]

I'm the descendent of Italian immigrants. I disagree.

If you are moving to a country where you know you don't speak the predominant language, it should be a requirement that you attempt to learn a basic level of English. Not wanting to is not an excuse.

Yeah - just like the settlers did when they moved here. Do you know any aboriginal languages? Have you even tried?

 

[katie_tully]

Of course this was going to turn into another 'but what about what happened 219 years ago!??'. I don't care. England was a country which had based its empire on conquering and colonising land. If you have a problem with that, go write the Queen a letter.
The first colony in Australia was a penal colony if I remember correctly, meaning the first settlers didn't come to Australia by choice so I don't know what you're getting at.

 

[campbellleo]

Of course this was going to turn into another 'but what about what happened 219 years ago!??'. I don't care. England was a country which had based its empire on conquering and colonising land. If you have a problem with that, go write the Queen a letter.
The first colony in Australia was a penal colony if I remember correctly, meaning the first settlers didn't come to Australia by choice so I don't know what you're getting at.

What I am getting at is that we don't have some sort of moral highground to demand that people here speak our language. Sure, it makes it a lot easier for them, probably makes them more tolerant and open-minded, and I am sure it does wonders for the practicalities in life, but if they don't want to, we can't just tell them to fuck off.

 

[Partisan]

The Australian Citizenship Test can be used to keep out potential Centrelink grubs but it's not fair for those who'd like to earn a living in Australia.

 

[Tulipa]

What I am getting at is that we don't have some sort of moral highground to demand that people here speak our language. Sure, it makes it a lot easier for them, probably makes them more tolerant and open-minded, and I am sure it does wonders for the practicalities in life, but if they don't want to, we can't just tell them to fuck off.

Which no one has suggested happen. It's a citizenship test, nothing to do with getting into Australia.

However, it's immensely difficult for migrants to live in Australia and speak no English. Also, you have to live here for a few years to actually get citizenship and in those intervening years it's likely they will pick up passable English for the test.

 

[katie_tully]

Nobody said they should fuck off. If they make no effort to learn English they should not expect special treatment.

 

[~kiki]

They have NO RIGHT to live in Australia. It is a PRIVILEDGE extended to them by the government and whatever condition set upon becoming Australian Citizenship is their responsibility.

And you know why your beloved Sheikh Hilaly ran into trouble with the press for a zillion times, because he cannot speak proper english even after living in Australia for over 20 years.

Out of interest, what other languages do you speak? Because this "everyone should speak perfect english" attitude is fucking bullshit. When you have a fluent grasp of another language then you are at least somewhat justified in critisising someone for not speaking "proper" english. Otherwise shut the fuck up.

 

[katie_tully]

He doesn't need to speak another language, he lives in Australia.

The point he was making with the Sheikh was that the guy has been here 20 years and has made no effort to learn English, so when he says fuckwit things in his language and they get 'lost in translation', he has nobody to blame but himself.

 

[DownInFlames]

(1) Which one of these is a responsibility for every Australian citizenship?

- Renounce their citzenship of any other country
- Serve in Australian Diplomatic Missions overseas
- Join with Australians to defend Australia and its way of life, should the need arise

(2) Which one of these values is important in modern Australia?

- Everyone has the same religion
- Everyone has equality of opportunity
- Everyone belongs to the same political party

(3) What is Australia's national floral emblem?

- The banksia
- The waratah
- The golden wattle

(4) Which one of these Australians is famour for playing cricket?

- Rod Laver
- Sir Donald Bradman
- Sir Hubert Opperman

(5) What is a Bill?

- A decision made by a government department
- A proposed law that has not yet passed through parliament
- A legal document that outlines the Australian system of government



God forbid the immigrants don't know an arbitrary national floral emblem, Australian sporting history (a sport not widely followed anyways) or legal terminology. (These are just sample questions though.)

Deport me!

 

[~kiki]

Absolutely, and I've seen first hand what happens when an elderly person doesn't speak English. They still have expenses and services they require and it's ridiculous to expect there to be somebody else to act as a translator or mediator. One woman I knew of who was 86 had to get her son in law to ring up Telstra over a bill discrepancy because she didn't speak English and Telstra refused to speak to him because they didn't have permission for him to act on her behalf.

At 86 years old you can speak whatever language you choose. I wouldn't expect my grandmother to learn Japanese or French.

 

[katie_tully]

He was 41 when he came to Australia. Young enough to learn English.
Nobody is talking about 86 year olds, grow up. My example was to show how problematic it is to come to a country and not bother to learn the language. The woman in question didn't come here when she was 85, she came when she was at an age where she could have learnt enough English to make life easier for her and everybody else.