Boat People (3 Viewers)

[katie_tully]

The discussion will suffer without a definition of what exactly a boat person is. I'll assume this is relating to the Labor proposal that asylum seekers should have access to Medicare/employment and live in secure hostel housing while their applications are processed, which I disagree with. If someone is a genuine refugee, the conditions in the detention centres are almost certainly superior to the conditions which they left and in which they travelled to Australia. The wait in the detention centre will (most likely) not harm them and is necessary to secure asylum seekers while their claims are processed.

I totally agree. I think the hysteria caused by some certain left wing factions about the conditions in the detention centres is false and misleading. If you come here illegally, you should not expect special treatment. I dare say that if you're coming to Australia from squalor, air conditioned, self contained rooms with food and fresh water would be first class. I know I would not be complaining.

Whilst it may be unnecessary for some to be detained for 7 years whilst being processed, I don't think that a moderate wait is unreasonable, especially if you do not have the papers or adequate proof on hand to prove that you are a genuine refugee.

I know that our homeless children, men and women of Australia wouldn't complain if they were given the same accomodation at the expense of the Australian tax payer.

 

[Jiga]

You dont need to know alot bout immigration to comment here, because the answer is quite basic.

*Immigration has a purpose, so that people are screened etc and so that we at least get people who will contribute to our society

*Refugees and illegal immigrants are for the most part, un-educated, unskilled, and will no doubt become unproductive members of society

= Dont Accept LOTS of Refugees

 

[erawamai]

I totally agree. I think the hysteria caused by some certain left wing factions about the conditions in the detention centres is false and misleading. If you come here illegally, you should not expect special treatment. I dare say that if you're coming to Australia from squalor, air conditioned, self contained rooms with food and fresh water would be first class. I know I would not be complaining.

The Howard government has made a rather large fuss about punishing onshore asylum seekers. Which is rather odd and possibly unconstitutional. The only arm of government able to dish out punishment is the judiciary not the executive. As such the detention of asylum seekers is for adminstrative purposes not punishment. It would be very unconstitional if the detainment of asylum seekers was punishment (for breaking the law). Considering that no asylum seekers have faced a court or have had a chance to defend their 'crime'.

Whilst it may be unnecessary for some to be detained for 7 years whilst being processed, I don't think that a moderate wait is unreasonable, especially if you do not have the papers or adequate proof on hand to prove that you are a genuine refugee.

7 years is a long time. Seeminlg the government is not concerned about whether this is unreasonable or not. The concern of the government is that asylum seekers be punished in order to deter further asylum seekers.

A more sensible solution would be to stabalise those areas in which asylum seekers come from. Something which the governments seems to have very little interest in doing. I mean boat people win elections.

 

[erawamai]

*Refugees and illegal immigrants are for the most part, un-educated, unskilled, and will no doubt become unproductive members of society

Unskilled workers are a very important part of society. The fact their labour is so cheap is why you get to wear cheap trackies from Target at Sefton.

 

[Lozacious]

The Howard government has made a rather large fuss about punishing onshore asylum seekers. Which is rather odd and possibly unconstitutional. The only arm of government able to dish out punishment is the judiciary not the executive. As such the detention of asylum seekers is for adminstrative purposes not punishment. It would be very unconstitional if the detainment of asylum seekers was punishment (for breaking the law). Considering that no asylum seekers have faced a court or have had a chance to defend their 'crime'.

The government has enacted legislation which allows these people to be detained until it their eligibility can be determined. It is not unconstitutional, as the government has powers to make laws regarding immigration.
The detention itself isn't a punishment, but misbehaviour inside the camp can result in a punishment. After all, we wouldn't want them getting hurt or anything would we?

7 years is a long time. Seeminlg the government is not concerned about whether this is unreasonable or not. The concern of the government is that asylum seekers be punished in order to deter further asylum seekers.

But if they are truely fleeing persecution, with their life hanging by a thread in their own country.. They wouldn't mind spending this time in a detention center.

 

[Jiga]

Unskilled workers are a very important part of society. The fact their labour is so cheap is why you get to wear tackies from Target at Sefton

But why does it say "Made in China". Its called specialisation, Australia mainly imports things like clothes and exports things like resources etc.......we dont really have a need for unsklled workers in other words, or at least their applications are limited and can be filled by your avg smow in housing commission.

 

[Jiga]

But if they are truely fleeing persecution, with their life hanging by a thread in their own country.. They wouldn't mind spending this time in a detention center.

Also consider that they travelled to Australia in a over-crowded boat, with no doubt the stench of human faeces and other disgusting things emintating over their journey.

Hmmmmm, Id say air-conditioned comfort etc would be an upgrade!

 

[erawamai]

But why does it say "Made in China". Its called specialisation, Australia mainly imports things like clothes and exports things like resources etc.......we dont really have a need for unsklled workers in other words, or at least their applications are limited and can be filled by your avg smow in housing commission.

um...the growth in jobs under the new IR changes are most likely going to be unskilled jobs.

 

[Lozacious]

Refugees have nothing to do with it.

... then why did you bring it up when we are talking about "boat people"?

 

[erawamai]

... then why did you bring it up when we are talking about "boat people"?

...it is sad that you are so intellectually challenged that you cannot join the dots for yourself.

It's the fact that you seem to know not even the basics of the current migration scheme. How are you supposed to defend you point of view when its pretty clear you know as much about immigration procedures, Australian history and politics as general maths people knowing about 4 unit maths.

 

[katie_tully]

I have issues though with the unskilled worker debate. If unskilled workers are better because they produce cheap labour, aren't they taking jobs from those who are skilled, who have gone out and gotten the qualifications?

 

[erawamai]

I have issues though with the unskilled worker debate. If unskilled workers are better because they produce cheap labour, aren't they taking jobs from those who are skilled, who have gone out and gotten the qualifications?

No because, if you listened to our our grand leader, there will be more jobs!

 

[Lozacious]

um...the growth in jobs under the new IR changes are most likely going to be unskilled jobs.

Why? saaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[Jiga]

um...the growth in jobs under the new IR changes are most likely going to be unskilled jobs.

I would beg to differ on that, but lets not skew off the topic.

 

[katie_tully]

Look, I have no problem with immigrants. I come from am immigrant background. I appreciate what immigrants did for Australia, especially after World War 2.
I disagree though with the need to let anybody and everybody in the country. I disagree with 7 years detention, but I don't think moderate detention is unreasonable.
Nor do I believe that the conditions of detention centres are unreasonable, especially if they did flee from squalor and war.

 

[erawamai]

Why? saaaaaaaaaaaaaa

The ability to pay unskilled workers less will mean employers will employ more people in order to reduce their tax liability and such.

 

[katie_tully]

No, actually I agree with the unskilled worker, IR reform statement. It makes sense. Employers are going to go for the cheaper option, especially in terms of production and efficiency. If they can get 2 people to work for the price of one, aren't they going to be more inclined to employ them?
Skilled workers require award wages which are much higher than unskilled workers. 2+2 = 4

 

[Lozacious]

The ability to pay unskilled workers less will mean employers will employ more people in order to reduce their tax liability and such.

Erawamai, the way Australia is going, it's heading for a paris-riot like situation. France and the Netherlands are suffering the same problem as every western nation... Millions of people from poor countries found a loophole in their immigration system and have moved there.. which upsets the balance of things whether people like to admit it or not.

In reality, its the western nations getting the raw end of the deal.. Because what is the possibility of a westerner moving to the middle east as a refugee?

These people only add to the white mans burden, which as it is.. is stretched to near breaking point.

 

[katie_tully]

haha shit...I'm not touching that one with a 100ft pole.

 

[Jiga]

I dont get the unskilled idea.

For eg, exaggerated of course, you cant employ an unskilled worker as an Accountant? I was of the belief that the main effect would be a decrease in the avg wage because employees have less bargaining power. And Australia doesnt really have to many unskilled jobs in comparison to a nation such as China, and I cant see that changing.