Boat People (4 Viewers)

[Generator]

Breach of Human rights, whats next, its unfair to keep criminals in jails?

Criminals are in prison following a criminal trial through the judicial system. People detained by the immigration department are detained without charge. Note the difference.

Edit: Already addressed by NTB.

Why not? Globalisation is only about international trade and communication, movements of people between countries is up to tourism and immigration departments.

No, it's about global flows. To limit it to flows of capital and information doesn't make much sense when labour and other human flows are central to the acquisition of financial capital.

 

[supercharged]

The problem being that the refugee's have not been...
a) Charged with a crime.
OR
b) Told why they are not a legitimate refugee.

They are told that their claims for asylum are being processed.

Also if they turn out to be fake refugees, they could be charged with entering the country without a valid visa.

 

[supercharged]

No, it's about global flows. To limit it to flows of capital and information doesn't make much sense when labour and other human flows are central to the acquisition of financial capital.

Who cares whether it makes sense or not? Globalisation is only for the purposes of making money through trade and investment. Countries trade and invest to make money, nothing else.

Letting random people in and out of a country is not about globalisation, rather it's a lack of border controls such as in Iraq.

 

[Jiga]

Firstly, immigration law obviously allows for detaining people without charges, but under the basis of what supercharged said.

As for the globalisation thing, yes, it means free flows of labour, skilled individuals usually, not refugees. Not that this matters because free flows of labour would only really occur in the European Union, its impractical in Australia, more so when relating it to unskilled, non-english speaking individuals.

 

[Generator]

It does matter given the way in which people and labour already flow as a part of the global network.

BTW, globalisation isn't a tool, it's a process.

 

[Jiga]

Letting random people in and out of a country is not about globalisation, rather it's a lack of border controls such as in Iraq.[/QUOTE[

Just imagine if they had these fairies in the US. They struggle to control illegal immigrants even whilst pumping heaps of money into it, and they aernt as nice as the Aussies when it comes to detention.

 

[spell check]

Its been said so many times, yet those pro-refugee fairies still dont get it. Its prity basic to, its quite obvious living conditions in' detention centres' are superior to that of the place they came from......yet its a breach of human rights .

yeah i'm a real wacko hippy for considering freedom from imprisonment without trial to be a fundamental human right, it's not as though it's the basis of our centuries old legal system or anything

one of the reasons globalisation and free trade are unjust is that its easy for rich countries and corporations to move their capital around the globe in search of the best returns or cheapest labour. it's not so easy for people in poor areas to come to richer areas to compete for jobs there. when that happens there is a huge uproar that immigrants are taking our jobs, when if it were any other form of capital other than human it would be considered a good thing

that is why it leads to gross inequality and backlashes such as terrorism.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

They are told that their claims for asylum are being processed.

Also if they turn out to be fake refugees, they could be charged with entering the country without a valid visa.

lol but that's not justice at all...
You cannot simply lock people up for such long periods of time, and tell them that you're "processing their charges".

 

[supercharged]

It does matter given the way in which people and labour already flow as a part of the global network.

BTW, globalisation isn't a tool, it's a process.

Labour? So would you say North African 'aslyum seekers' trying to reach the shores of the EU is part of globalisation?

Globalisation is for the purposes of expanding markets, cutting costs and making more money. Turning one's country into an aslyum seeker haven does not further the cause of economic growth....

Also international labour flows are relative minor in numbers due to different qualification standards not being recognised, and different languages spoken in each country. It usually happens between countries with a certain common link such as Commonwealth States or the EU not random countries with nothing in common.

 

[supercharged]

lol but that's not justice at all...
You cannot simply lock people up for such long periods of time, and tell them that you're "processing their charges".

Well if they didn't want to wait such long periods and were geniune refugees, they should of brought documentation such as passports and birth certificates to back up their claims of where they came from. A true refugee would do this.

If they bring nothing, then of course it's gonna take a heck of a long time to prove their identity to see if they are valid or not.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well if they didn't want to wait such long periods and were geniune refugees, they should of brought documentation such as passports and birth certificates to back up their claims of where they came from. A true refugee would do this.

Alot of refugees are fleeing from the state, do you expect them to go up to some government office (if one actually exists) and get all their paper-work sorted out? The people who do have all their documentation etc are the oppressors, the people who are oppressed in these countries do not have any documentation, they are poor, and they just wanted to escape.

If they bring nothing, then of course it's gonna take a heck of a long time to prove their identity to see it they are valid or not.

Why do we need to check their identity? Shouldn't the fact that they risked their life comming over on a rickety boat be enough of a clue that they probably deserve refugee status?

 

[spell check]

Labour? So would you say North African 'aslyum seekers' trying to reach the shores of the EU is part of globalisation?

Globalisation is for the purposes of expanding markets, cutting costs and making more money. Turning one's country into an aslyum seeker haven does not further the cause of economic growth....

Also international labour flows are relative minor in numbers due to different qualification standards not being recognised, and different languages spoken in each country. It usually happens between countries with a certain common link such as Commonwealth States or the EU not random countries with nothing in common.

so it is globalisation when an australian company sets up a factory in kenya, and hires kenyan labour because they have no laws protecting themselves from harsh conditions and extremely low pay rates?

but when kenyans come here to work, under the protection of our minimum wage and condition laws (which hopefully will continue to exist), it isn't globalisation?

you make it seem like globalisation is only a tool for the rich in one state to cut costs and make profits at the expense of people overseas? sounds like you should be writing for green left

 

[Generator]

Labour? So would you say North African 'aslyum seekers' trying to reach the shores of the EU is part of globalisation?

Globalisation is for the purposes of expanding markets, cutting costs and making more money. Turning one's country into an aslyum seeker haven does not further the cause of economic growth....

Also international labour flows are relative minor in numbers due to different qualification standards not being recognised, and different languages spoken in each country. It usually happens between countries with a certain common link such as Commonwealth States or the EU not random countries with nothing in common.

It's a part of it, yes; the blackmarket is as much a part of globalisation as is the formal economy, and labour flows, be they formal or informal, are hardly just a minor consideration alongside flows of information, finance and commodities.

Once again, globalisation isn't a tool that economists one day thought would be useful, but I do agree that as a process it is driving the expansion of markets along financial, commodity, information and labour/human networks. However, I disagree with the notion that it's primarily a process of the market, because such a representation doesn't make much sense when applied to the real world. It's more than an economic process, but I do realise that economic processes (formed within particular socio-politcal milieus) essentially drive the process as a whole.

 

[supercharged]

Alot of refugees are fleeing from the state, do you expect them to go up to some government office (if one actually exists) and get all their paper-work sorted out? The people who do have all their documentation etc are the oppressors, the people who are oppressed in these countries do not have any documentation, they are poor, and they just wanted to escape.

Why do we need to check their identity? Shouldn't the fact that they risked their life comming over on a rickety boat be enough of a clue that they probably deserve refugee status?

1) Why do you need to go to a government office? You should already have your own birth certificate or license/library card/passport or some other thing with your name and address, in your own home.

2) Of course you need to check their idenity! That's the most stupid call of the day. How do you know who they are without any documentation?

They could be criminals on the loose or just random people trying to find a richer country to live in. If they were really fleeing war, they would happy to settle in any nearby country where there is no war. If they come halfway around the world to reach a 'developed' country, bypassing dozens of other safe, but less developed nations, then their intentions are very suspect.

 

[Generator]

1) Why do you need to go to a government office? You should already have your own birth certificate or license/library card/passport or some other thing with your name and address, in your own home.

2) Of course you need to check their idenity! That's the most stupid call of the day. How do you know who they are without any documentation?

Such people aren't fleeing from Australia, supercharged, so it isn;t fair to just assume that they all have birth certificates or any other form of identity on hand (if at all in some cases).

Nobody disputes that their identity must be determined, but must it take place as they are kept locked away in conditions that aren't as humane as they could be?

 

[supercharged]

so it is globalisation when an australian company sets up a factory in kenya, and hires kenyan labour because they have no laws protecting themselves from harsh conditions and extremely low pay rates?

but when kenyans come here to work, under the protection of our minimum wage and condition laws (which hopefully will continue to exist), it isn't globalisation?

Firstly I doubt too many companies would invest in Kenya, BUT if they hired labour in Kenya then they would make more profit by doing that, because of lower operating costs than in Australia (outsourcing).

They would NOT send Kenyans to work over here because that would defeat the whole purpose of outsourcing. The Kenyans would need to be paid Australia labour rates, hence being pointless, you may as well hire a local.

 

[spell check]

Firstly I doubt too many companies would invest in Kenya, BUT if they hired labour in Kenya then they would make more profit by doing that, because of lower operating costs than in Australia (outsourcing).

They would NOT send Kenyans to work over here because that would defeat the whole purpose of outsourcing. The Kenyans would need to be paid Australia labour rates, hence being pointless, you may as well hire a local.

way to totally miss the point

did you even read what i said?

 

[supercharged]

what the hell is your point? Globalisation is to make greater profit, not to spread aslyum seekers into developed countries.

 

[spell check]

my point is that your description of globalisation can only lead to the rich getting richer at the expense of the poor, and the poor being stripped of any options to improve their lives

immigration laws are a form of protection, just like subsidies or tariffs

we can't preach free trade and then put people in detention

 

[supercharged]

my point is that your description of globalisation can only lead to the rich getting richer at the expense of the poor, and the poor being stripped of any options to improve their lives

immigration laws are a form of protection, just like subsidies or tariffs

we can't preach free trade and then put people in detention

Bullshit, globalisation benfits poor countries as well otherwise why the heck would they do it? It's win-win. All the countries and economies in East Asia were dirt poor 50 years ago such as Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan and are now first world standard thanks to globalisation. The very same thing is happening in China and India now.

Immigration laws are not a tariff or trade barrier, because people aren't bought and sold as slaves. Don't try to confuse economics with bleeding heart idealism